BMW Experts? ICE query

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by Naaktgeboren, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. Naaktgeboren

    Naaktgeboren
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    Hope someone can help, looking to replace the wifes car and have seen a very nice BMW that ticks all the boxes although doesn't have Sat Nav. I've attached a photo of the existing system which does have a screen so could possibly? display Sat Nav?? It's a 2011 plate, does anyone know what it's currently running and whether or not its possible to get Sat Nav on it?

    TIA
     

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  2. JUS

    JUS
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    I know I'm not answering your question but...

    I have one with sat nav, but I don't use it. I find Waze far better in numerous ways (more accurate traffic, incident reports, speed cameras etc)
     
  3. un1eash

    un1eash
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    It can be done but wont be cheap even if you found all the parts used, I'm talking up to £1000
     
  4. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
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    I've looked into this quite extensively as my previous 1 series had the standard drive set up like yours.

    There is two options.

    1. BMW sell a sat nav retrofit ( I will dig out the link for you in a min) its very expensive £850 fitted!!!! but apparently its quite good.

    link will have to be viewed not on mobile as for some reason BMW doesn't play that well with a phone browser.

    BMW RETRO FIT INTEGRATED NAVIGATION OFFER | Gloucestershire & Herefordshire | BMW

    2. retrofit the professional navigation, to have someone do this you're looking at almost £1500!! and not all features will work because you're car will not have the SIM card etc installed. This option will need reverting back if you were to go in for warranty work (assuming you have a warranty).

    What series is it out of interest?
     
  5. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
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    apparently BMW have bought Waze? well thats what my salesman told me so take with the appropriate pinch of salt
     
  6. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
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    If it helps a loose guide is,
    - small screen with grey surround (your picture) is standard iDrive which I believe before 2012/13 didn't have DAB as standard so check for that.

    - small screen with glossy black look (black instead of grey surrounds) is the business navigation.

    - big screen in a glossy black is the professional navigation.
     
  7. Delvey

    Delvey
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    Doubt it. Owned by Google
     
  8. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
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    That’s what I thought!!
     
  9. mjn

    mjn
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    As soon as you start retrofitting options, the cost soon mounts up.

    You need the hardware, fitting and then coding.

    Easier to find a car with the sat nav.
     
  10. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Perhaps he means they have licensed it from Google?
     
  11. Naaktgeboren

    Naaktgeboren
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    Well, I had a 130 mile round trip this afternoon to take a better look.

    Really annoyed, this car with FSH and 56k on the clock hadn't had a service for 3 years and had 75k on the clock. Reckoned his brother had done all the servicing so had no receipts or stamps in the book.

    Why do people do this? :(
     
  12. JUS

    JUS
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    Yes agreed. I call bs on that. It is a shame cars manufacturers don't offer more of an open ui

    What do the salesmen know with their tight suits, pointy shoes and strange hipster facial hair [emoji39]
     
  13. JUS

    JUS
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    Yes drives my potty. I always ask for photo proof before doing a trip now.

    What are you looking to spend?
     
  14. Sloppy Bob

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    Was it a dealer or a private sale?

    If it was a dealer then name and shame them.
     
  15. DPinBucks

    DPinBucks
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    I do NOT recommend this product.

    We had it fitted to my wife's 2-Series AT. The product is seriously mis-sold. In our case the offer was £800, but it's the same box.

    Firstly, in my opinion (others may disagree) 'retrofit' means installing the same product that comes as a factory option, and that is what we expected. In fact, it is a box which fits in the glove compartment (to be fair, that's what the ad says). It integrates fairly well with the iDrive controller, but not with the menus. The only way of accessing it is via the button on the centre console, and you have to use the 'Back' button to exit. So it won't work from the main menu; nor with voice control, if you have it. The iDrive gives rudimentary control of the screen, such as zooming and up and down menus, but to go back a step you have to use the button.

    Map scaling is not good, you lose too much detail too soon; you need to go down to 250 yards to see all the streets.

    Directions and routing are good, with the same lady's voice and terminology as the factory-fitted option.

    But the main stumbling block is that TMC does not work. We had a huge run-in with the dealer over this; they had no idea, and I had to all the research myself. It turns out that the product (made by Harman of Germany - a big player) does not recognise the UK traffic signal, which in our part of the woods come via Classic FM. Oddly, though, it works sometimes (very, very rarely, and then only for a few minutes). In the end the dealer and BMW finally admitted the issue and offered us £400 back, which we accepted.

    We're living with it now, but my advice is don't touch it.
     
  16. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
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    Glad I never went for it then!!

    How seriously rubbish is that if it doesn’t pick up the traffic!! One of the main reasons for getting would be traffic.

    To be honest the thing I’ve learnt is simply get a car with the options you want. Retrofitting anything to a Beemer is so crazy expensive.
     
  17. shodan

    shodan
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    That they dress like Estate Agents?
     
  18. DPinBucks

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    Yes, with hindsight it's one of those things where you wonder what you were thinking of!

    The car was not new, ex-demo, and one of the last before BMW fitted all cars with satnav as standard, and we thought we could do without. But we've got so used to it on other cars that I researched getting it truly retrofitted. I was quoted about £1,500 by a reputable company (BMW themselves wouldn't do it), so gave up.

    Then the BMW offer, as quoted above, came out of the blue, and it seemed too good to pass up.

    We were a bit put out to find it was simply a bolt-on accessory rather than a true retrofit, but nonetheless went with it, until we discovered the TMC problem, as above.

    We should have returned it for a full refund: even £400 is too much for what it is, I guess. But we didn't. To be honest, as it's not our main car and not used much in situations where traffic is often a problem, we can live with it. The guidance part of it is fine.

    But if I were asked for a single-word description of it, I'd say "rubbish".

    ===== PS =====
    It's just lost GPS completely, and had to be rebooted, losing all stored favourites.:devil:
     
  19. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
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    It’s a shame they didn’t offer a “Pro Nav” official retrofit because people would be paying silly money for it. And knowing bmw it would be silly money.

    Now having a car with Pro Nav I can say I wouldn’t want another without it, it totally changes the interior and use of the car.
     
  20. maxwell

    maxwell
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    you can DIY retrofit NBT for around £1K its not that hard to do and lots of info/guides out there
     
  21. DPinBucks

    DPinBucks
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    Forgive me for rabbiting on about this, but this is an example of what we had to contend with when complaining about it to the dealer:

    Me: I know the M4 is at a standstill, so why isn't it showing? There should be a red line along that stretch of road.
    Dealer: There is a red line.
    Me: No, that's simply the designator of a major road. The red line should be along the side. It's actually showing green, meaning it's clear.
    Dealer: No, that's OK.
    Dealer: Anyway, you can see that it's picking up lots of TMC channels. Look at the icon at the bottom.
    Me: No, that's the number of GPS satellites it's found. It has nothing to do with TMC
    Dealer: Yes, it does. That's where it gets the info from.
    Me: No, it doesn't. It gets it from Classic FM.
    Dealer: No that's not right.
    Me: Are you seriously trying to tell me that the GPS satellites are fed with traffic data from Slough?
    Dealer: ???
     
  22. mjn

    mjn
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    Yeah, but it doesn't quite work 100% does it. Loads of little niggles with it, even on the professional jobs. Might be different on the newer who had the NBT as an option, but on the e90 generation who had the options of CCC or CIC, it's not 100% successful.
     
  23. mjn

    mjn
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    I thought the RTTI / TMC came from BMW, or one of their partners?

    I can't quite remember, but i don't think it is from the radio stations?
     
  24. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
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    It’s things like having to put a GPS receiver under the dash, needing to use an emulator to trick it into working properly and half the other options not working which put me off.

    RTTI is bmw but for the basic nav TMC comes from Radio stations
     
  25. DPinBucks

    DPinBucks
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    Yes - this box doesn't use RTTI; just TMC.

    The problem lies somewhere in its connection with the source. You can see it scanning all the radio stations, but can't lock on to Classic, except very occasionally for a few minutes. It seems to be a known problem in the UK: something to do with the handshake. It's not an aerial/reception issue.

    I did get in touch at the time with Inrix, who provide TMC services in the UK. They were very willing to help, but could offer no advice. TMC is a subscription service in the UK, via a one-off payment when the car or device is bought. That's not the problem here, by the way; it's all paid up (but useless).
     
  26. maxwell

    maxwell
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    Yes it does work fine, I fitted it in my old 57 plate e64 which originally had CCC, only thing that didn't work was Speed limit display.
     
  27. mjn

    mjn
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    Stolen from another website.....

    People have experienced the following errors on their retrofit:

    incorrect vehicle positioning
    related to an incorrect calculation or even ignoring of the data from the DSC control unit and yaw sensor. The data from the DSC control unit is always transmitted via the power line which is converted into CANBUS2 , and then sent to the NBT EVO. This conversion is done by the front electronics module, or the ZGW module in the newer cars.

    echo when receiving / making calls

    currently it only affects those with the Logic 7 setup. The only option is to replace the amplifier with one from an F30.
    The echo is due to how the NBT EVO passes a command to mute all audio signals from the MOST bus.

    weak FM radio signals
    CCC and CIC passes a built-in amplifier signal to boost the radio reception. The NBT EVO does not have this. the only way to receive a good radio signal is to install a radio amplifier from an F30.

    Coding will only get you so far, until you reach hardware limitations.

    This is not to put you off doing your retrofit, but you did ask for opinions [​IMG]

    If you really wanted to do this correctly or as close to OEM as possible:
    • go to BMW, and buy an ATM, and beg them to register it with your vehicle VIN. You might be lucky...
    • install a ZWG-02 high module in your car ( this will convert p-line, kan bus, etc.. into CAN2 for the EVO unit ). You will need to wire the gateway to your OBD for an ethernet connection.
    • Change the IHKA module to a very late LCI E9X one. There is some logic here...as the newer F-models NBT faceplate connect directly to the IHKA, which then passes on the NBT control signals to the gateway, which then passes it onto the NBT...

      You would install a CIC faceplate and connect the ribbon cable to the back on the IHKA.

      I have not tried this out, but have asked around if anyone has the CIC faceplate ribbon cable pinout. So far, no answers or no one willing to provide this info due to their capitalist nature [​IMG]
     
  28. maxwell

    maxwell
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    Yes but all that is for NBT EVO, if you fit the standard NBT its fine
     
  29. mjn

    mjn
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    Oh......:blush:

    Is EVO the later version?

    I'm firmly stuck in E90 CIC world.
     
  30. maxwell

    maxwell
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    Yes its later it came in 2016, BMW went from a much more functional NBT unit hardware wise to the NBT EVO which although it has better software and user interface it lost several hardware functions in the process.

    A lot also depends on where you get your interface adapter from, the one from Canada and the chinese clones are nowhere near as good as the one from Romania
     

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