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Blue-Ray DVD Recorder - see it here!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Reiner, Oct 11, 2002.

  1. Reiner

    Reiner
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  2. James45

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    is there any thinking on whether Blu-ray is being developed to be compatable with exisiting DVDs... cos there is no way I'm replacing my film collection again!!
     
  3. Yummy Fur

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    James45 said
    You may want to look at Barry Fox's article in Hi-Fi News (NOV) issue. To summarise, there are currently three HD DVD proposals.
    1) Blu-Ray which offers 27Gb storage, but does not readily play DVD's.
    2) A Toshiba/NEC format which stores about 20Gb per disc side, but is compatible with most DVD's, but not CDR's...
    3) A Warner/ Toshiba (Toshiba seem to be hedging their bets!) system that uses current DVD-9 discs, so is compatible with existing DVD's and manufactureing systems, but uses MPEG 4 video compression, instead of MPEG-2, so may not be the best choice in terms of quality.....

    Lets hope this all get's sorted before multiple formats launch !

    Yummy Fur
     
  4. buns

    buns
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    is it actualyl blue or are they still telling half truths and it really is blue green?

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  5. nunew33

    nunew33
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    There is a forum (much like the DVD forum) setting standards. I think that there is no backward compatability with DVD as standard but Toshiba are breaking away with a standard that does. Cant remember where I read this its most probably on Toshibas own web site. Isnt it called blue lazer now rather than Blu ray
     
  6. buns

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    As i hinted, i sont think it is a blue laSer. To my knowledge, they are still incredibly difficult to construct, even in the physics world where millions float about, they dont get much light!

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  7. encaser

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    Do a search on avsforum.com and a chap put up a number of pics for prototype models inc. Pana/Philips/JVC etc. As I recall the Philips stayed close in box design to current +r looks and some were retro scifi looking but one was rather modern/current in design and would fit nicely in my living room...Toshiba, that's it.
    Oh here
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175878&highlight=blue+laser

    and then

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169676&highlight=blue+laser

    and then

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175894


    and then...dude where's my car...
     
  8. zoolap

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    Without backward compatibility it will go the way of dvhs. Average man on the street ain't gonna notice the difference in quality.

    Replacing my whole collection isn't that appealing either.

    My main concern is regional coding. I want to be able to get titles that I can't get here, especially anime titles.
     
  9. encaser

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    I doubt compatability is going to be an issue unless they try to sell these as purely record and play from then on in but use you existing dvd player for movies of course. Previous literature on these suggested that the mechanisms could have a dvd laser sited so's both could be played. The Tosh' (or JVC, memory?) has already been said to have dvd play considered.
    The biggest hold up is going to be whatever leverage Hollywood can use to ensure piracy is curtailed. I hope the current dvd recorders are the betamax boys - sorry to owners but the choice would be clear.
     
  10. Yummy Fur

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    I have no idea what colour the laser will be, but as long as it plays (and hopefully records....) HD I'll be happy!

    I think consumers feel alienated if their existing collections become 'obsolete', therefore backwards compatability is essential. Whether the 'HD Laser' reads the 'standard DVD' or a second 'standard' Laser is built into the playback mechanism is probably not critical as long you can still play your existing collection. I believe the average man on the street WILL notice the difference. Every HD demo (not HD DVD though!) I've seen has been breathtaking, with standard DVD playback looking very sad in comparision. Whether the average man is able (and willing) to pay the cost of HD playback and display is another matter......

    As to replacing your whole collection- well surely that's optional?
    I still have many Laserdisc's I have not and probably will not replace with DVD. Of course there are many titles one would want to replace with HD DVD, but at least the choice is yours.

    There is no way that in the medium term future that HD DVD will replace 'standard' DVD-- the two will co-exist, with HD DVD sold as a premium product. I certainly welcome anything that pushes the standard of Audio/Video reproduction forward.

    Yummy Fur
     
  11. nunew33

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    from http://cd-rw.org/news/archive/3251.cfm

    Japanese consumer electronic giants NEC and Toshiba announced today that they are developing their own version of blue-laser DVD technology, which would not be compatible with Blu-Ray (the standard proposed earlier this year). Toshiba reps defended their decision that their blue-laser DVD solution offers better backwards compatibility to existing DVD technology -- most notably, Toshiba-NEC's technology doesn't use cartridges to protect the disc. For consumers, this is a non-issue, since it is most likely that all Blu-Ray as well as "Toshiba-NEC technology" players will play existing DVDs anyway. But the carrot is meant for content publishers -- changing the DVD plants to use new technology that requires usage of cartridges is more difficult than changing to a technology that doesn't.
     
  12. buns

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    i cant get the links to open!!!!! :confused: ooooh, opened at last!

    I wouldnt go changing my whole collection either, i wouldnt really even be willing to pay much of a premium since, on my set up, i cant imagine my quality can get much better.

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    ps. its blue/green im almost sure of it.......they will have one hell of a time trying to explain that when they get true blues going!
     
  13. nunew33

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    I cant see it taking off. Its DVD RAM with a different laser and lots more space. DVD RAM media is still prohibitively expensive. And when you can get 2hrs for 40p with DVD-R who is going to pay for 10 hours for £20.

    the only way blue laser will get off the ground will be to undermine the DVD market by coming in at the same price for hardware and media. And to enter the market with hibreds immediately (ie HDD).

    But all the companies will want to milk DVD for what they can and will delay blue laser till they have clawed back the R&D and made a profit. Then there will be the early adopter exploitation period, so I cant see how Blu ray/Blue laser is going to make a difference.

    It will be the SVHS of the VCR world. Only for those who want the best and it will only become cheap in the dying days of the technology (with the media still disproportionately priced)!!!!
     
  14. Reiner

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    IMHO DVD recorders are not that common as VHS VCRs were when S-VHS was first launched, thus I see a potential for the increased storage capacity offered by BlueRay and if it really allows HDTV (playback and recording) it will certainly be on my short list.
    Currently I am not interested in a DVD recorder though ...
     
  15. buns

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    blue is a step ahead in technology. Eventually it will take over, but, as said, it will have to be backwards compatible.

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  16. nunew33

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    SVHS was a step ahead, SACD is a step ahead, DVD audio is a step ahead. Doesnt mean it will take over. At the end of the day it may be technically superior but it is unlikely to give better quality of picture image or one that an average person would want so the only benefit for an average user is disk space. How much will that be worth to people especially if Hibred machines like the HS2 take off. The real decider is the average consumer who isnt technology led they are usually cost and convenience led. Like I said, the only way it could replace DVDs is to undercut it from the start

    Reiner HDTV is unlikely to touch our shores for a long time so that attraction doesnt exist in the UK and if it does come here there will obviously be a premium. Its hard enough to make people go digital!!
     
  17. buns

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    At the time of intro, a video recorder was truly revolutionary. The ultimate system. Look where we are now. No matter how unlikely it may seem and the obstacles it faces, an advance is an advance and it will eventually take over. That said, true blue wont take over for a long long time because it is very cost prohibitive.

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  18. nunew33

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    People arent rushing out to get DVD recorders to replace VCRs.

    Manufacturers are removing bells and whistles from VCRs to make the DVD recorders look better. Quality is a big factor for this forums users but VCR is ok for the masses. CD took over from LP not because of quality, it was durability and size. Quality and technology arent what make people switch.

    The deciding factor will be the mass market and I cant see what Blue ray will hve over a DVD reocrder thats going to ignite the mass market. It will be the same size and have the same features. It may have 5 times the storage space but will the cost difference be worth it. Quality improvements will not be as quantifiable as DVD R is over VCR. Because itll get to the shops last I cant see that it will dislodge an establishd DVD base. It will be the SVHS of the VCR world, for perfectionists only. Unless of course a government decides that all non HD transmissions will be switched off by 2010
     
  19. Reiner

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    Of course backwards compability is a must and even though HDTV might not come that soon it can be an added bonus to BlueRay - after all, we like future proof equipment, don't we? ;)

    Anyhow, as someone mentioned people are not rushing to replace the VCR I take this as an advantage, because by the time BlueRay is out it might be time to replace aging VCRs, with only a few DVD recorders in place I would think people choose that instead of an old (by then) DVD recorder.

    Guess only the future will tell, actually I rather fancy a harddisk based solution, not that much interested in tape or disk based formats - just something where I can catch up with films I missed.
    Then again the TV program today is so terrible that I am afraid I even wouldn't bother and stick to DVD ....
     
  20. buns

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    dvd has taken over from vcr. I wasnt talking in terms of recorders since the dvd recorder has not matured. I have commented elsewhere i dont think dvd recorder will ever truly suceed. The blue ray i am thinking of currently as a playback only device.

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  21. nunew33

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    But what advantage in the UK, where we dont have HDTV where the average consumer doesnt know what progressive scan is and only jumped onto the DVDbandwagon when they could be bought for £100, would blue ray have over DVD as a playback device? Dont get me wrong I can think of 10 reasons why I would rather thave blue ray but they are reasons that would not be considered by the average couch potato.

    Remember, for an average consumer, not someone that assesses a playback device at pixel level!!!!!
     
  22. Reiner

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    I understand your point and agree with it for the time being, but when BlueRay - in a few years - is common it maybe an entirely different situation.
    Well, perhaps I am just being too optimistic here ... :D
     
  23. buns

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    i am not expecting it to happen now if that was what everyone thought! I totally agree that our current technology is not good enough for the punter who particapates in the mass market, being able to enjoy the hi def benefits. The future as Reiner says.

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  24. nunew33

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    The way I see it is that some countries are more gadgety than others, and the UK is not gadgety at all. The UK are very money conscious and will only buy things that have an obvious use. So in the UK I cant see Blu ray ever becomming dominent without an aggressive pricing strategy which wont open (a la mini disc, that waited 5 years before it dropped its price to thatof CD - losing market share for 5 years).

    Another example mobile phones only became popular when cheap. However despite many of the standard cheap phones being wap enabled, I dont know anyone who uses wap. The extra functionality comes for free in this case and it still doesnt get used!!! If it cost extra the phones would not sell. We only get ot free because the providers hope they will get revenue from use (like sky insisting we have the digibox plugged in)

    You can lead a horse to water........
     
  25. buns

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    It is far too far away to really worry.........we'll all have super mega ultra home cinemas by that point and not really care! lets get back to today!

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