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BLU-RAY Vs HD DVD!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by crank, Jul 30, 2005.

  1. crank

    crank
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    HAVING BBEEN TOLD THAT BLU-RAY AND HD DVD ARE DUE OUT IN ABOUT 6 MONTHS TIME.AND THEY FORSEE THIS AS BEING LIKENED TO THE VHS Vs BETAMAX WAR OF THE 80s.WOULD IT BE BEST TO HOLD ON AND NOT JUMP IN STRAIGHT AWAY AND SHOW SOME PATIENCE,WAITING TO SEE WHO COMES OUT ON TOP!!.COS IF HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF I WOULD END UP WITH A BETAMAX!!!!!!!!. ANYMORE VIEWS ON THIS PPPPPLEASE!!!!
     
  2. Jules

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    There's a whole thread on the issue of HDD/BluRay.

    My feeling is that unless the 2 camps can reach a compromise and merge somehow, then they will both flop just as the SACD / DVD Audio formats have.
    The general public is now wiser than at the time of VHS/Betamax, and most people will sit this one out..... and then of course both will fail.

    PS... STOP SHOUTING AND TURN YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF!
    It makes your speak much harder to read and appears aggressive!

    :)
     
  3. crank

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    aggressive me!!!never i do appologise :oops:
     
  4. AML

    AML
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    There are many threads about this but Ill do my best to tell you what has been happening.

    Blu Ray belongs to Sony. They developed this format to be a succesor to DVD.

    Technologicaly speaking it is superior to HD DVD in a few ways. Bigger capacity and such.
    A one layerd Blu Ray disk can hold 25gb and 2 layer version 50gb. I beleive they are talking about a possible 4 layer version holding 100gb.

    It may seem like too much but in the distant future 100gb wont be as much as we think, especially when u start considering Hi definition.

    Remember when DVD first came out? No one thought we would ever fill 4gb!!

    These are the benefits to Blu Ray.

    The negative aspects are that its a whole new system and therfore will cost more money to produce as it requires new production machines and such.

    The only other negative aspect is that its made by sony. And they dont have the best track record.


    HD DVD is made by Toshiba and is 15gb single layer and 30gb dual. Im sure they will figure out how to increase the capacity over time.

    Benefits are that it is cheaper to make than Blu Ray as it uses similar methods to DVD production therefore doesnt need new production machines. Existing machines can be refited to work.

    Its cheaper, yet holds less capacity. For now the capacity would be enough, but if we consider the long term Blu Ray would be preferable.

    On the support side of things, Many film studios are split between Blu Ray and HD DVD as their future format.

    Sony Pictures, MGM, Disney and a few others support Blu Ray while the rest support HD DVD.

    Some are undecided at this point.

    At this time, HD DVD plan to release their first players/recorders at the end of this year.

    Sony plans to deliver the first decent Blu Ray player in the form of the PS3.

    (yes there are currently some Blu Ray recorders available in Japan, but they only record. They also wont be compatible with the full spec version that will come out in the near future.)

    This I beleive is a good strategy on sony's side as it will give them a large instaled base to work from.

    Anyone buying a PS3 will also in effect be buying a Blu Ray player. (i dont know if it will also record or not)

    They did the same thing with the PS2. (DVD that time)


    Once the hardware is out, we will start seeing the software.

    At one point these two rivals were going to work together and make a single format based on the two systems. But that seems to have evaporated.

    There will be a war of some sort. Blu Ray has a lot of back up this time. It has the companies that support it, it has the PS3 behind it and Sonys full attention.

    Negative points will be the cost.

    HD DVD also has good support and will be cheaper.
    Micorosoft recently came to an agreement with the HD DVD camp and they will also be supporting HD DVD. Thats a big step forward for the format as it means windows and possibly the XBox 360 will support the format.

    The only negative thing I can think of is that it might lack storage capacity.
     
  5. Rasczak

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    You missed the core advantage of HD DVD - it's durability. Like DVD it uses a 0.6mm structure whereas BluRay uses a 0.1mm design - which, by definition, is considerably more prone to damage. Originally BluRay was designed to be in a caddy (like some DVD-RAMs or old CDRs) but this was dropped as it look 'unfashionable'. Instead hopes have been placed in the same type of coatings that cover scratchproof DVDRs - good coatings but not exactly 100% effective on DVD let alone BluRay!
     
  6. AML

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    I guess we will all just have to be REAL carefull!

    Yeah, the whole caddy thing wouldnt have worked. But thats how DVD RAM started out and now we can get caddy-less RAM disks that are pretty tough.
    Im sure Blu Rays will be the same.
     
  7. Rasczak

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    Not if (when?) HD DVD wins the format war :D
     
  8. crank

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    Again i feel as though i have been honoured with the presence of the GURU(AML) gainig knowledge beyond the empty box it once was!!!
     
  9. Steve N

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    My feeling is that they won't merge and that one will not win out over the other , although one may gain dominance over a period of time.
    Too many egos' and potential cash is involved.
    Recent history supports this theory.
    look at PS x XBox, SACD x DvdA.
    The most pertinent comparison, though, is the current DVD write/rewrite technologies which the new formats are hoping to supercede.
    None of the current formats gave in or did a "betamax". What evolved were machines able to read/play multi formats.
    Depressing as it sounds, there could be benefits to us if this scenario prevails. The competing factions will fight tooth and nail to gain dominance and this will result in price cutting and the fight to produce better technology in an effort the outdo the competition. Also I believe, when the dust clears, the manufacturers will follow the current route and, in an effort to maximise revinue, produce multi format machines and will read/play both Blueray and HD dvd with us, the buying public, using our favourites (as now) just for the home recording aspect.
     
  10. AML

    AML
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    If this happens we would benefit as it would mean having a choice between cheap and cheerful (HD DVD) and higher cost but better quality (blu Ray).

    It is sort of like that today with DVD. You could buy a cheap first release of a DVD and only pay a few quid or dollards for it, or you could wait for the "Super Duper Special Ultimate, Superbit Edition that comes with 5 disks and DTS sound for the menu" versions.

    I imagine that HD DVD would be the first release and Blu Ray the collectors release offering more extras and better quality as it has more capacity.

    In the long run though, Blu Ray could win out over HD as it has more capacity.

    HD will in my opinion win out in the short run as it is cheaper and faster to produce.
     
  11. Rasczak

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    If we start seeing companies releases their products on both BluRay and HD DVD then, given the cost of preparing a high definition transfer, the release is likely to be the same, i.e. if they prepare a release for a 15GB HD DVD disk then this will be pushed out at exactly the same bitrate on 25GB BluRay - only with the latter you'll have a poorer medium for storage and 10GB wasted space. Likewise if a company is preparing a release for a 30GB HD DVD we may see the bitrate dropped so it fits on a 25GB BluRay disc.

    I think once people see the amazing quality available on a 15GB HD DVD, let alone a 30GB or 45GB variant, the capacity argument of BluRay will diminish. Talk of 100GB/200GB BluRay's is nice (and a repeat of the 8 layer DVDs we were going to see!) but, in reality, by the time those capacities are required a new format will be here - one that isn't the size of a sandwitch because it doesn't require 8 layers glued together :)
     
  12. wannabeav

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    Crank, think the only thing for certain is that one knows for definate what is gonna win. I have same thoughts as you at the moment particularly as I'm about to buy a new DVD player - do i go for a top end player and wait for the HD-DVD / Blu Ray battle to commence or get a cheapie player now and buy into one of the technologies asap.

    After months of 'worry' I'm gonna get a decent player now and see what happens - it could be years before things level out ( or i could go and buy a new HD-DVD player next year (or a Blu ray!))
     
  13. Rasczak

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    Get yourself a decent DVD player now - one that does everything that you want to the quality you want it. The first HD DVD and BluRay players will be here within 12 months - but you can bet your bottom dollar that they won't be exceptional DVD players: the money will be spent on their MPEG4 decoders and onboard sound decoding.
     
  14. Kit2005

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    Isn't it more likely that both formats will fail and be replaced by legal downloads off the internet?

    That would bypass the foramt war altogether. You could just use a software plugin for different resolutions and encoding systems etc.
     
  15. PJTX100

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    Simply wait and see what format porn gets released on. Then you'll have your answer. My money is on BLUE ray..PJ ;)
     
  16. mray

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    I think Blu-ray, supported by PS3, will win out in the end.
    It was the PS2 which kick-started DVD in this country, from the domain of the early adopter to the mass market.
    Just my opinion, of course.
     
  17. AML

    AML
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    I agree with that. The PS2 certainly did help DVD along. Many people still use their PS2 as a DVD player. Most people in this Forum wouldnt dream of that, but for the average joe its more than enough.

    One other thing. It is obvious that there is a big difference in quality between a PS2 and say a Denon 3910.
    Mainly because the Denon can upscale the picture but the PS2 can not.
    Also becuase the D/A converters in the 3910 will be far better than what the PS2 has.

    However, when you look at Blu Ray. The player HAS to offer 720P/1080P. If it doesnt then it wont work. There is no DAC this time round as the picture is all digital.

    So given this, would we really see any difference between a high end Blu Ray player and a PS3?

    It either outputs 1080p or it doesnt!
     
  18. Rasczak

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    I am looking forward to more people on this board getting HDMI equipped gear to blow this myth right out the water...
     
  19. AML

    AML
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    Myth? That it wouldnt be the same?

    Well considering how much DVD players have changed over time compared to the PS2, it wouldnt surprise me to see the same, over time.

    But not from day one.

    The fact is, there was never much difference between a PS2 and a DVD player at the time the PS2 came out.

    This time round the PS3 will be very advanced out of the box. When it comes out, it will be the only or one of few blu ray players available in the market.

    You cant deny that mate!
     
  20. Rasczak

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    Frankly I don't think either will win - both will end up being niche products like DVD-Audio and SACD. If either has to win I hope HD DVD does for pre-recorded and BluRay for recording from the demos I have seen so far. The robustness of HD DVD should not be discounted so easily - it's something that seems to have no real benefit when taping away on a forum but does the second one of your discs fail!
     
  21. Rasczak

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    This has been endlessly debated already on the forum already... :(
     
  22. David Mackenzie

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    Why would you care if you ended up with a Betamax? I'd much rather have had a Betamax player than a VHS one, as supposedly they were superior.

    I'm buying a Blu-Ray player because the discs offer more storage space. That will more than likely equate to superior image quality. I don't care if it "wins" or not, by the time we know I'll be planning to buy my next player anyway and I'll see then which format will give me more longevity.

    I don't care much for robustness either - I don't scratch any of my discs - as harsh as it sounds, I'm utterly amazed that people can fail to handle discs properly. Just don't touch the bottom... how's that hard? :confused:
     
  23. AML

    AML
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    I still feel that what matters is whats inside the box. Doesnt matter how much it costs, who makes it or how pretty it is.

    Because of this only the most experienced AV enthisiasts could ever know what is actually in the box and what it does.

    Most people have to trust brands or price tags.
     
  24. David Mackenzie

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    Agree there... when the PS2 launched, I remember all of my friends who got one suddenly started buying a ton of DVD movies. It definitely helped push the format, and I think PS3 will do the same for Blu-Ray.

    During the first few months of its release in Japan, wasn't the PS2 just used as a budget-price DVD player?
     
  25. Rasczak

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    You're quite right...but at least one report I've seen has stated that a fingerprint that leaves no visual mark could be sufficient to disable playback. I find that concerning.
     
  26. crank

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    "WOW!" this is amazing yesterday i knew nothing today i cant pick my head up off the floor it weighs that much!!!CHEERS GUYS!!!and thanks rasczak i think youve helped me make my mind up i will go and buy a good dvd player and wait and watch with patience on whats about to unfold..."untill the first hd-dvd player comes out and i jump in with two feet" HA HA HA !..... :thumbsup:
     
  27. sime

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    hey crank ......your head as always been very large i just didnt have the balls to tell you :hiya:

    glad you learned how to use the forum give me a shout when your new dvd-player arrives ;)
     
  28. gandley

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    i think people are getting a little to hung on HDMI and its abilitys.
    It is digital and can deliver a cleaner pic, but it can also add some issues over a top notch component output.
    What is more important however is the chips used to do the processing.
    If the PS3 uses the usual sony tat then it will nowhere compete with a dedicated blueray player that has full realta/genum/dvdo etc processing.

    I dont see the PS3 being too hot with HD films (i would like to be wrong though). then theres the price of PS3 which is expected to be high. in fact sony have quoted that it will be expensive.
     
  29. gandley

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  30. mray

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    I still think it will be cheaper than a dedicated Blu-ray player, plus every PS3 buyer will have the added bonus of Blu-ray compatibility, which will add to the installed user base. Like it or not, many people started their DVD collections after buying a PS2.
     

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