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Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD = XB2 vs PS3

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by AML, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. AML

    AML
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    I wanted to start this thread because Sony recently announced that the PS3 will include a Blu-Ray Drive.

    I feel that this will help to influence which new machine will sell the most and become the dominating system in the next console war.

    Whether PS3 software comes out on BD-Roms or not, isnt clear at this point.

    What we do know is that people who buy a PS3 will also be buying a Blu-Ray player.

    And, in the same way the PS2 helped influence the DVD market, I beleive that the PS3 will do the same in the war between blu ray and hd dvd.

    On the flip side. If Blu-Ray wins the war, then that will also help to influence PS3 sales.

    win win for sony right?

    Microsoft havent announced what they will use in the XBox 2. But if they choose the loosing format, then the XBox 2 will also loose.


    As for Nintendo, well they dont seem to care, but if they want to be strong contenders in the next console wars, then they really should choose a side and offer people a system that can do more than play games.

    The PS2 and XBox both did well partialy thanks to the fact that they doubled as DVD players.
    For everyday consumers this factors helps to infuence them.

    Im not looking to get remarks like: "A hardcore gamer wouldnt buy a machine coz it plays DVDs"

    Im sure this is true, but you have to admit that it DOES help to influence your purchase.

    Likewise in the next console race, any extra features or functions will most likely help influence peoples buying decisions.

    What are your thoughts? Will this influence your decision to buy a particular console?

    Lets face it, spec wise, both machines will be roughly the same therefore providing the same graphics and game experience.

    The Nintendo system MIGHT be different, but that remains to be seen.

    These days, consoles are a lot more than just game systems.
     
  2. Sinzer

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    It did briefly before I had a DVD player, then I bought a DVD player sold the PS2 and bought a gamecube instead :)

    I don't think blu-ray will influence my decision at all, purely what machine has the best specs and future games.

    TBH I doubt I will even buy a new home console until they have been established for a good while, unless they have a really killer game on them.
     
  3. AML

    AML
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    As I mentioned, it doesnt really affect us hardcore gamers, but if its a familly or parent who is buying, then they look at what the best value is, not what killer app it has game wise.

    When considering value, we have to look at what the machine can do.
    If it can only play games like the Game Cube then parents might be reluctant as it has no other value "therefore only kids can use it".

    When looking at the PS3 or XBox 2, a parent will think: "Hmmm, so it can play Blu-Rays and conect to the internet? It comes with a modem? and a HDD? Ill take it!!"

    When you look at the Game Cube now, what does it have out of the box? Only the machine and a controller. The japanese cube didnt even have a video cable!!!
    Cant even play it right out of the box!!

    That in my opinion will debilitate Nintendo in this very competitive market!

    Microsoft have already over taken the Cube in many markets. Nintendo have 30 years of experience and yet this new comer has taken them over in a couple of years!
     
  4. bossc@

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    Why do you think that the format of the drive will influence gamers? Its not as if any developer is going to use the capability in the short term. Name one that has the ability or would want to extend the already expensive and long development process to fill the capacity with what?......more FMV and cut scenes. Also, although there are probably more HD capable displays being sold now in the UK there are still so many non-HD TVs that the ability of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD make the choice irrelavant for most people.

    Hopefully, gamers will buy machines on the premise of the games themselves. I hope Nintendo stick to making games machines, they are still one of the most original development companies and I dont see any requirement to change. If Sony and Microsoft want to try and bring out the all singing, all dancing set top box then fine. At the end of the day I'll probably do like I do now and own all of them.

    Most people have standalone DVD players etc and the majority probably don't use the inferior DVD capabilities of the current crop of consoles, can't really see that changing.

    You call yourself a hardcore gamer but you seem to be more wrapped up in the technology involved rather than the software, which is surely what its all about, and the sales of a machine to indicate its capability.

    Personally, I dont like Sony gear and to be honest my PS2 hardly gets any use. I prefer either the xbox or Gamecube for various reasons. I'm not 'hardcore' but would describe myself as more 'old school' and would rather play for enjoyment than leading edge visuals. Nintendo to me, provide that in bucketfulls. The Xbox I play for other reasons.
     
  5. Azrikam

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    I think the Blu-Ray news is interesting, but it doesn't affect me personally. Since the price of DVD players has plummeted in the last year or so (got my multi-region from Amazon for about £35), I think DVD playback in consoles has been reduced to that of CD playback as a selling point. (ie, almost nil)

    As far as the media is concerned, I can see the next generation of DVDs (Blu-Ray / HD-DVD / etc) possibly going the way of DAT tapes. Yes, I can see the need for more storage, but I've got 200+ DVDs, and I have no intention of buying any of them in a new format in the forseeable future. The quality and the extras suit me fine. I've got a feeling that a lot of people are in the same boat.
     
  6. Rob20

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    Thing is, you can also record hi-definition content on Blu-Ray, you can't with standard dvd recorders. If Sky releases their hi-def service in 2006 as reported you'll need a Blu-Ray player if you want to make recordings, timeshift etc...Also, you may not want to replace your dvd collection at the moment, but what about films you do not have, or forthcoming releases? Who knows, you may change your mind if the improvements are as good as the 4 times dvd picture resolution the Blu-Ray format is supposed to be capable of. Otherwise, you can still play your current dvd's in a Blu-Ray player as the format's backwardly compatible.
     
  7. AML

    AML
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    I think Rob sees what i mean.
    You need to have foresight to see that these new Hi deff formats are more than just a fad.

    Isnt that what people might have said about DVD when we first heard about it? I mean when I saw Video CD playing Mpeg 1 on the CD I (you guys remmebr the CD I? :rotfl: ) I wasnt all that impressed!

    bossc:

    I wanted to start this thread to talk about the effects of this on the whole market, not just on gamers or hard core gamers.

    If we look at the average punter, they DO care about extra features.
    Im not talking about what effect it will have on gaming or gamers but on the Console market as a whole.

    The same way the PS2's DVD playability had an effect on its sales (and dont deny it!) I feel that Blu-Ray playability will have an effect on the PS3's sales.

    I mean cmon, if you could buy a PS3 for say $200 and it could play Blu Rays would you say No?
    Considering that a stand alone Blu Ray player now costs $2000 or more?

    This is what im talking about.

    I do care about games and gaming, and I do consider myself harcore. But Im also realistic.

    Sega once said: "we are in this for the money" And so is every one else.

    Both Microsot and Sony have no background in games. The original game companies are all but gone!

    I think im being realistic by sayng that both the PS3 and the XBox 2 are going nowhere.

    Why? because they dont offer anythng that we dont already have as gamers.

    Nintendo always say it, companies are too focused on hardware and not enough on software.
    All the top selling games these days are sequels right?

    What does this say about the gaming industry? That its full of corporates who only want results and proffits!

    Wow i can really rant!!!
     
  8. Shensuke

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    I have to agree on that one. The extra feature of Blu-Ray disc movie playback on any future games console will influence a large number of consumers in their choice of purchase.

    Sales of DVDs sky-rocketed in Japan with the release of the PS2, and the PS3 should have a similar effect in that country. Especially when you consider the number of Japanese households with high-def TV sets. The effect may not be as pronounced in this country.

    That's all speculation though. As for myself, blu-ray compatibility WON'T in any way influence my decsion at all. It'll be based purely on gaming. I'll buy a console if I like the games it has to offer. Blu-Ray high def movie playback would simply be an added bonus.
     
  9. bossc@

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    I dont think it'll influence gamers at all. As I say, no dev house have the time or resource to fill that capacity. As for the UK then until Hi Def displays/projectors become the norm then it will be a useless technolgy for the majority.

    At the end of the day then it should be about the games. Whats the point in having that capability in a games machine and have generic, unimaginative run of the mill software but a great Hi Def movie capability. Wht not just but a comparable separate player and the games machine that can deliver what you want games wise.
     
  10. explicitlyrics

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    I have a modified xbox that plays everything I throw at it (divx/xvid/mp3s/pics etc etc) and that completely influenced my decision. Halo was also a deciding factor!
    I would NOT class myself as a hardcore gamer in any way, but I do feel that if there was a console that could do more than play games it would help. Yes it may take time for it to become useful to most users but the option is still there. As Blu-ray is a possible contender for high capacity recording (allowing more detailled texture maps in game) it will influence sales for certain.
    Microsoft would be stupid to miss something like that out and Im sure they have their answers and solutions to this problem.
    At the moment only time will tell what they decide to do!
     
  11. CAS FAN

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    Having a multifunctional AV unit is important to some and not to others. I personally don't want one box that does it all as generally they are not up to the standard of standalone units.

    For me a games console should just play games, a DVD player should play digital video and a TV should play video and audio signals that are put into it.

    There's a sliding scale for everything. If 1 is a casual A/V user & games player and 10 is a hardcore games & home cinema fanatic i'd say i'm about a 6 or 7 these days. My Dav 550 does me where as many on this forum wouldn't dream of having an all in one DVD & AMP setup. Then again I wouldn't dream of watching a DVD on a PS2 where as some people will actually use their PS2 as their main DVD player.

    I love the Gamecube as a console and I love the fact that it just plays games. The fact that it's just a games machine has meant that it can cost less than the other consoles as well. I bought my PS2 solely to play games on it and the rest of the features on it are a waste of money to me.

    Whether the PS2 has a blu ray drive won't really affect sales as a) people who know what blu ray is will buy a stand alone unit and b) the people who don't know what it is won't care anyway as long as it plays Fifa 2007 when they stick it in. The only people that I see it maybe being a factor with are those who want a Blu Ray player and a games console but can't afford to buy the more expensive separate units.

    I think i've mentioned this point before somewhere but i've actually now got at least 6 things that can play DVD's (2 laptops, a desktop computer, a PS2 and Toshiba DVD player and my Sony DAV 550) and only my DAV 550 and occasionally a laptop gets used to play DVD's. I've lost count of how many things I own that play CD's!

    Personally I wish that they would spend more time on developing the features of the console that are primarily related to gaming instead of the multifunctional aspects of the machine. If the Blu Ray drive is something that will halp developers produce much better games (due to enhanced storage space) then great! If it doesn't then i'm not really interested.
     
  12. Sinzer

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    I don't see how higher capacity will further this? You still need the system memory to hold the textures, something a console is usually in short supply of.

    Besides capacity is not a huge issue these days, there are many excellent forms of compression which compensate for this.

    For recording it would definately be a bonus, recording both TV and the results of your gaming :)
     
  13. Azrikam

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    That's a pretty rosy prediction from Sony's perspective.
    A) The PS3 will probably not be as cheap as $200 on release.
    B) When the PS3 is released, Blu-Ray DVD players will be cheaper than they are now. I have no idea how cheap, but I would be shocked if you could get a PS3 for significantly less than a Blu-Ray player.
    C) If the PS2 and XBox are any indication, PS3's Blu-Ray capabilities will be inferior to a stand-alone Blu-Ray player, so it's an unfair comparison to begin with.

    Yes, I think DVD playback had an affect on PS2 sales. But I don't think it had a "significant" effect on them. But I don't doubt a lot of gamers used this added functionality to convince their significant others that the PS2 was a good investment. ;)
     
  14. johnnyhonk

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    It won't make any difference to the vast majority of people.

    If its not a writer and I can't rip or write my own BR or HD-DVD's, then its just another drive in a console.

    The winning format IMHO will be the one that can fit Microsoft Office 2008 on a single Disc.
     
  15. harrisuk

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    It wont effect peoples decision to buy the console at all. People didnt buy PS2 because it was a DVD player (An extremely poor one at that) They bought if for the Playstation brand . DVD has been around for years and there still is no defacto standard for Writeable. There is less than no chance of them taking a big market share just by including it in their new console. There are 40 Million PS2 in circulation. How many £30 dvd players are out there ? How many DVD playesrs are there in circulation ????

    Sony are just taking a massive massive risk in my opinion, adding to the cost, potentially creating a cross format compatability problem.

    Ps2 was inferior to xbox techinically and PS3 will be as well.

    At the end of the day its down to quality and quantity of games available and exclusive titles. In all of these areas Sony have lost there advantage pretty much completely since the last console launch.

    Sony are worried. Very worried. The whole company relies on the Video Game sector to shore up their profits and this sector is now under real threat. It will be very intersting to watch how things unfold.
     
  16. dvdmike007

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    hd dvd is not a storage medium what is this thead about ????????
    hd dvd is red laser and uses mpeg4 for movies it is not i repeat not used for games storage

    blu-ray can be and will be
     
  17. CAS FAN

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    Hmmm there's not a great deal of logic behind this statement. It's like saying "the PC I bought 18 months ago isn't as good as one I can buy today at a similar price"
    The PS2 came out around 18 months before the X-Box and the technology in it is 18 months older, hence why it's technically inferior. If the PS3 and X-Box2 release around the same time like they look to be doing, then you'll find that they will be on the same technical level.

    I disagree here, games wise it's still the best console (although the X-box has cought up in this department). I own all 3 machines and there are only a handfull of X-Box games that are currently worth having IMO (although I personally can't wait for Forza Motorsport as that has now overtaken GT4 as my most awaited game after HL2 and PES4 online :) ).

    Regarding people not buying the PS2 as a DVD player - again you're wrong i'm affraid. OK they don't buy it for that now, but when it came out DVD's were a lot more expensive £150-£200 for a cheap one and the PS2 made a lot of sense for people after a cheap DVD player as it was also a games console as well! It's the initial sales that are very important so that a good strong user base is formed. Once a lead is obtained then people continue to buy them as "that's what their mates have". That is the reason the PS2 sells so well, yes brand is a factor but kids only want what their mates have - noone wants to be billy no mates and be the only kid in the school with the other console ;) .

    Sony are not worried at all, why should they be?? They are the console market (athlough if you look at the sales figures closely enough with a magnifying glass you can just about see the Gamecube & X-Box sales figures). I personally hope the next generation is more open with each company having more of an equal share of the market, but I can't see it.
     
  18. zantarous

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    Your average Joe didn’t (and probably still doesn’t) know that the PS2 was a rubbish DVD player, infact most probably think that a machine that plays games and their DVD’s straight out of the box was a very good buy and at the time of its launch the average DVD player was priced around £150+. It was defiantly one of the reasons I bought one otherwise I would have just waited for a price drop. With PS3 it will be somewhat different as you need a HI-DEF TV to take advantage of Blurays full capability, but the PS brand is very strong and I expect it to sell very well and I bet Bluray discs will have big stickers on them saying “Playstation 3 compatible.
     
  19. Rob20

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    Why will the PS3 be inferior technically than the XBox 2? How do you know this as no details have been published on either. The difference last time was that Sony's PS2 came to market roughly 18 months before the XBox. Plenty of time to make the XBOx more powerful than PS2. This time however, it's the XBox2 that's supposed to be out first. Up to 12 months earlier. I don't expect the differences in performance to be as great this time.
     
  20. Kish Kash

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    I think that's called "hitting the nail on the head" :smashin:

    How many PS2 owners do you know with £2k plasma displays?

    I for one will be happy if the bloody thing supports plain old VGA properly!!

    KK
     
  21. Jeff

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    HD-DVD uses blue laser not red and may not use mpeg4 either.
     
  22. AML

    AML
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    dvdmike. How do you know HD DVD wont be used as a format by say microsoft or some other company?

    I think your just guessing.

    Nobody knew if Blu Ray would get used untill sony announced it.
    But its a fair guess that if microsoft were to use blu ray in the XBox 2, that would be even more profit for sony, so it would make sense for microsoft to use a rival format. ie HD DVD.
     
  23. JUS

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    Here are my categories of shopper..

    Techno Geeks - Buy everything as soon as it comes out.
    Techno Savy - Buy when it looks like it will catch on.
    Normals - Buy when price is cheap enough and their current format has become obsolete.
    Non interested Parents - only buy because their kid is nagging. Like the idea the PS2 will give them a DVD player as well. Will play it through a composite cable and be quite happy (Bought their first new console in the last year)

    You can get a cross between the categories. So Techno Geek for consoles, Techno savy for DVD.

    We are all in the top two categories. The majority of the general public are in the bottom two. I find it hard to relate to them to be honest :D None of the bottom two groups are going to rush out and buy a new games console just because it has the latest dvd playing technology which is not going to improve their lives any more than the current console or dvd player.

    Me, I'm going to buy a HD-DVD/blue ray whatever asap and new console on release day :)

    bring'em on!!!!
     
  24. GagHalfrunt

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    I think that most people have got this the wrong way round.

    Imho the PS3 will sell Blu-ray to the public, not the other way around.

    P.S. I know several people in the "normal" category that used their PS2's for playing DVDs.
     
  25. AML

    AML
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    Thats what i been saying all along!
     
  26. JUS

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    OK. I see what you mean. The XBOX sold 5.1 audio in games and films to everyone...although no-one used it...that kind of thing ;)
     
  27. CAS FAN

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    Exactly my point. People will buy the PS3 because it's a PS3 and because all of their mates will buy one. They will then be able to buy & rent out Blu ray discs. Although the X-Box 2 will probably be around the same power of the PS3, people will still view it as the technonurds machine (the original Xbox's image). By being so good & powerful the Xbox has built a rod for it's own back in creating an almost geeky image which the XB2 will find hard to shake off. The PS3 may even be the most powerful machine when it all shakes down which means that everyone who bought an X-box for it's technical superiority will switch to PS3 as they want the best piece of kit. Everyone elso will buy PS3 simply because it's a playstation.
     
  28. AML

    AML
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    I hope you all remember that the "PS" was origianly going to be a CD-Rom add on for the SNES!
    I still dont beleive that sony belongs in the games market.

    I doubt they will ever leave however, as the PS brand is their most powerfull product.

    All of sonys hopes are riding on the succesfull launch of the PSP, the PS3 and Blu Ray.

    If these products fail, sony will fail. I know coz i live in japan and see what is hapening to sony here.

    They went from Industry leader and inovator to industry copycat.
     
  29. Dunedin397

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    I've just read through this thread and so many people make broad statements as though they were fact but are actually their own opinions.

    As a PlayStation owner and fan, I got my PS2 on launch day. I would have bought one anyway even if it didn't play DVDs but as it did I actually held off buying pre-recorded VHS tapes as I knew I'd get a DVD player in my PS2.

    As has been noted before, the sales of DVDs went through the roof in Japan when the PS2 was launched as DVD players were still quite expensive but since then the price has dropped dramatically. I was reading through my old copies of Edge magazine for 2000 and there was an article stating many software developers and publishers were concerned that whilst the console was selling well, software was not as many consumers only bought the machine as a DVD player.

    The situation was similar in the UK and I know many people that bought a PS2 just because it was a cheaper way to get a DVD player. The situation has changed now of course as DVD players are extremely cheap and very well specified. I myself use my PS2 as my DVD player as I found the picture quality very good compared to regular DVD players on my TV (I'm sure if you've got a 42"+ plasma then a dedicated player will perform better but it's down to cost vs performance and no matter what you spend, you could spend more, but that's another topic). The other reason for using my PS2 is to cut down on the number of boxes under the TV and that means less wires.

    Will the PS3 do the same for Blu Ray movies? I can't see the future so I've no idea. If the format does indeed record straight away and HD TV is popular in Japan then it's got a very good chance of doing well. In saying that however, if the XBox 2 (or whatever it'll be called) does well then HD DVD movies could do well. What I'm not so keen on with Blu Ray is that it would appear the disc has to be in a caddy? I would hope that might change if that's the case.

    Dunedin
     
  30. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I would hardly say that they will fail lol. What they would do is just become another AV manufacturer. Sony have had an amazing record of innovation as a company and anyone from a design background can appreciate where the company has come from. They are responsible for creating & developing the following:- The Transistor radio, the Walkman, Betamax, Discman, Mini Disk and the Playstation. They have also played a large part in the development of DVD technology, Looking back over that list, the only product you caould say failed was the Betamax video format (even though it was the best format around). Sony have a high record in innovation, marketing & design and they must be applauded for moving the games industry on like they have.

    You're right in that they don't belong in the market as it stood before Playstation and they wouldn't want to be in that market. Hence they created a brand new market that appealed to a much wider audience and turned video games into a large & respected media form.

    The industry is different these days, back when they produced the walkman & the transistor radio the technology was still very new (especially in terms od the TR). These days the innovation is less obvious and whilst the Playstation wasn't a massive technical innovation it was a marketing innovation. Blu Ray is just another in a long line of Sony innovations and i'm sure it will be a great success
     

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