Blu-ray Profile 1.0 Player Comparison

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Ian_S, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    The following table shows all available Blu-ray profile 1.0 players

    [​IMG]

    The key to the table is as follows:

    • Reg - Available in US (A), UK (B) or both
    • Upg? - Will a profile 1.1 or 2.0 upgrade be available for this player
    • On board decoding - What new formats can be decoded by the player
    • HDMI - Whether HD audio bitstream is available and no. of HDMI PCM channels
    • Analogue Outs - No. of analogue outputs on player
    • Legacy Digital - Does the player have optical and/or coax?
    • RM - Can the player re-master or encode sound over legacy digital DD or DTS?
    • BD-R/RE - Will the player read home-made BD's for camcorders etc?
    • DVD-A/SACD - Does the player support either or both formats?
    • 24p - Will the player output 1080p at 24 frames per second?

    This list of players will NOT grow as ALL new players must now be compliant with Profile 1.1 or higher.

    See here for a further explanation of Blu-ray profiles.
     
  2. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Notes On Samsung Profile 1.0 players

    Samsung BD-P1000

    UK Download link for user guide. Latest UK firmware download link.


    Samsung BD-P1200

    This player was only released in the USA. It's main upgrade over the previous BD-P1000, was the addition of a Reon chip which significantly improved it's SD performance and allowed 24p output.

    Samsung BD-P1400

    UK download link for user guide. UK download link for latest firmware.

    User feedback has indicated that the shipped firmware may well have issues with audio dropouts and also 24p output. You should update to the latest firmware which appears to correct these issues.

    Samsung UP-5000

    As you will see from this thread here on AVForums, this player has been generating a lot of interest being Samsung's first dual player, and unlike the LG BH100, it has full HD-DVD support.... well, sort of.

    There are some big issues with this player, namely:

    • No HD audio bitstream output yet
    • No Profile 1.1 support
    • No internal decoding of HD audio except for 2ch TrueHD (HD-DVD minimum spec)
    • Problems with many discs
    Samsung have promised a firmware update for the various disc issues (HD-DVD and BD), and have also said a firmware update will be available in 2Q 2008 that will enable bitstream audio out over HDMI. No word on internal decoding (those 7.1's will get a lot of use) and upgrading the BD side of the player to Profile 1.1. Clearly for the latter the upcoming UP5500 (USA release targetted for May '08) will be profile 1.1 compliant, but word is that it will only have 2 channel analogue output, and no REON video processing.

    So, yes the Samsung is available for pre-order at various UK retailers but, it's unclear if we will ever see it, and even if they are allowed to release what is a new player for the non-USA market that is not profile 1.1 compliant. This maybe why it is delayed and if they can't get 1.1 compliance working, will we ever see it?

    **This is speculation obviously and as soon as Samsung provide some answers I will update accordingly. In the meantime buyer beware.**
     
  3. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Notes on Sony Profile 1.0 Players

    BDP-S1/BDP-S1E

    BDP-S1 Sony USA Support Link, includes manual download and latest firmware.

    BDP-S1E Sony UK Support Link, includes manual download and latest firmware.

    In their shipping initial state, neither of these players would decode any new HD audio formats. The capability to decode TrueHD and DD+ was added by firmware, so make sure you download and install the latest version to benefit. TrueHD was added in firmware release 2.0 and later. The support links also include instructions on how to check the firware level.

    Description of added audio here.

    BDP-S300

    Sony UK support link, includes manual download and latest firmware.

    * = Firmware update version 3.20 or higher is required to add support for BDMV discs on BD-R/RE. As shipped (often with 2.20) the machine does not support this format.

    BDP-S500

    Sony UK Support Link, includes manual download and latest firmware.

    ** Please note that this player does NOT send DTS-HD Master Audio via bitstream apparently.

    BDP-S2000ES

    BDP-S1 Sony USA Support Link, includes manual download and latest firmware.

    The main difference on this player compared to the BDP-S500 appears to be the addition of an IR in socket, useful in custom integration installs, and of course ES build quality. Beyond that, they are functionally very similar.

    General Notes:

    All these Sony players are based on the same Sigma chipset which does not support multiple video/audio decoding and hence cannot be upgraded to profile 1.1. None of the current Sony players have ethernet ports either.

    x.v.Color is not HDMI 1.3 deep colour. It merely expands the used colour space, but does so within the normal 8-bit depth used for Blu-ray.
     
  4. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Notes on Pioneer Profile 1.0 Players

    Pioneer BDP-HD1 Support
    Pioneer BDP-94HD Support
    Pioneer BDP-95FD Support

    Pioneer BDP-LX70 Useful Information

    User Guide

    Update Sheet(English) - Includes TrueHD update


    Pioneer BDP-LX70a Useful Information

    User Guide

    Update Sheet - Updates to the user manual

    Caution Sheet - Update on audio features


    Pioneer UK Firmware updates


    General Notes:

    The BDP-HD1 was notable for NOT being able to play CD's, and was Pioneer's very first BD player released only in the USA. HD audio decoding of Dolby formats was added in a firmware update as with the Sony's (Pioneer built them for Sony), so make sure you have the latest level installed.

    The BDP-94HD was a minor update adding a new drive that supported CD playback, but was essentially the same machine. As before, TrueHD decoding was added via firmware so check to make sure you have the latest level installed. The LX70 was the first UK player, being just a different name for Europe.

    The BDP-95FD/LX70a were again minor updates adding TrueHD decoding out of the box, HDMI 1.3 and the ability to pass HD audio bitstream to a suitable amplifier over HDMI.

    All of these Pioneer players included DNLA support for streaming audio/video over a network, but even with an ethernet port will never be able to be upgraded to Profile 2.0 support as the Sigma chipset used does not support dual audio and video streams.

    There is a curious note on audio in the manuals. It implies that HDMI is the only way to get full resolution decoded PCM sound from HD codecs. It states that output over coax, optical or analogue is only from normal Dolby Digital or DTS. It would be nice to confirm this as if true, it means you can only get high resolution non-PCM sound over HDMI, not 5.1 analogue outputs!!
     
  5. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Notes on Panasonic Profile 1.0 Players

    Panasonic DMP-BD10 and DMP-BD10A

    The BD10 was the second BD player after the Samsung BD-P1000, and initially only included Dolby Digital+ decoding albeit for 7.1 channels. It also supports the playback of DVD-Audio discs.

    It received a minor update called the DMP-BD10A, but this update seemed to be confined to a different drive in the player, and the inclusion out of the box of TrueHD and DTS-HD High Resolution in player decoding. DTS-HD Master audio is still not supported.

    Firmware update 2.0 and later for the original BD10 bring it up to the same features as the BD10A, so it should not matter which version you buy, you get the same abilities. Neither has HDMI 1.3, so the player is not capable of bitstream audio, and currently also does not support 24p output.

    Lastest Panasonic player firmware updates

    Panasonic DMP-BD10 (UK) User Guide.

    Notes on LG Profile 1.0 Players

    LG BH100

    The UK User manual can be downloaded from this site. Simply click on owners manuals on the front page and then type BH100 in the model box to search for manual downloads.

    LG surprised everyone with the world first dual format player, and although they deserve some credit for being the first company to get both discs in one player, the reality is that it was a poor first attempt.

    I know this sound harsh for an FAQ, but if you're thinking of buying this machine you need to know what you are letting yourself in for.

    For those of you that thought disc profiles were confined to Blu-ray, you'll be pleased to know that HD-DVD has two types of disc, standard and advanced.

    • Standard - These discs have the same menu and feature capabilities as normal DVD's, but allow the use of HD video and audio.
    • Advanced - These discs use HDi to provide a much richer menu and feature interface along with HD audio and video.
    To get the HD-DVD player logo, a player has to be able to playback BOTH types of HD-DVD. Most discs authored in the US are advanced discs. Many authored initally in Japan were standard ones.

    The BH100 ONLY supports standard discs, it has no HDi support. It will however play HDi discs. It does this by scanning the disc and generating it's own title, scene selection and audio menus on the fly. (See pg.22 of the UK user guide.) This means all the fancy intended menus won't appear and neither will any of the advanced features such as PiP etc. It also makes it difficult to guarantee that all HD-DVD's will play on this machine without trouble and constant firmware updates. There is a good reason why you will not see the HD-DVD official logo anywhere on the product or it's associated literature and packaging.

    It also only supports the HD-DVD minimum audio specs (better than BD's min btw) of Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 (no Blu-rays with that anyway) and two channel (yes 2.0, not 5.1 which is not mandatory) Dolby TrueHD decoding.

    To be brutally honest, unless you really, really have to have a one box solution for both BD and HD-DVD and it must be a UK machine, it is best to avoid this machine at any price. It is the worst of all worlds, albeit an interesting technical exercise for the curious minded.

    LG BH200

    This player is currently only Blu-ray Profile 1.0 compliant. The user manual does indicate that it *may* be upgradeable via a firmware update to either profile 1.1 or 2.0, but no such update has appeared yet, or been confirmed. Unlike the BH100, this player is a proper HD-DVD player and should work with HDi content. Unlike the BH100, it is currently only available in the USA and only has 2.0 channel analogue outputs.


    Notes on Sharp Profile 1.0 Players

    Sharp BD-HP20

    The main note on this player is that the HDMI chip used is a 1.2 part, so this player cannot do bitstream audio, but can decode DD+ and TrueHD internally and send this out via analogue or HDMI.

    Notes relating to 'Other' players will appear here.
     
  6. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Hi all,

    I need the help of owners of the various players above to verify the details in the main table.

    I will then correct and add significant notes in the various sections.

    I will also try and create similar profile 1.1 and 2.0 threads/tables so that they can be linked to from the master FAQ...

    I thought we needed to make sure that people were not directed off site for this information, as I suspect that a LOT of people will be looking now wondering which BD player they should be buying, or not as the case may be... ;)
     
  7. Event Horizon

    Event Horizon
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    hi!!
    thats a great list of specs and helpfull information, i am sure that many will find it usefull...
    the details for the sony bdps300 look spot on.
    fairplay to ya.
    best regards
    nick.
    as far as i am aware the 3.7 update has sorted out the bd-r/re issue i havent tested this though.
     
  8. scrapbook

    scrapbook
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    Nice thread!

    I have created a link in the FAQ if ok.

    Send a mod a PM if something needs tidying up!
     
  9. batty

    batty
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    :hiya: Ian,

    Nice chart,
    Does it mean that the Samsung BD-P1400 cannot send uncompressed PCM 7.1 audio over HDMI to my amp?
     
  10. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    I don't know, the 5.1 could be wrong, I need owners of the unit to confirm if they have a 7.1 setup. If it is wrong I can amend the table.
     
  11. Howard0000

    Howard0000
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    I would have thought that refers just to it trancoding on the fly, and not just passing through the audio straight?

    I don't have any 7.1 disks to try on mine though
     
  12. batty

    batty
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    Well I went out and got one this afternoon!

    I also picked up "Shoot 'em up" which has a DTS HD 7.1 soundtrack.
    Amp shows "DTS-HD-MSTR" and all 7.1 speaker icons light up and sound comes from all 7 speakers. :thumbsup:
    Anyone know a LPCM 7.1 title I can try?
     
  13. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Which player did you get the 7.1 on? I'll update the chart to make sure it's correct. :smashin:

    EDIT: Ooops, just noticed you said DTS-HD... I'll get me coat...
     
  14. batty

    batty
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    Samsung BD-P1400 :)
     
  15. batty

    batty
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    Have just played back 3:10 To Yuma which has a 7.1 pcm(uncompressed) soundtrack.
    Sends all 7.1 to amp, which displays multi-channel and lights up all 7.1 speaker icons.

    So the samsung BD-P1400 seems to cope with all 7.1 soundtracks.

    Have to say I am very Happy with this player :thumbsup:

    Dave
     
  16. TommyVecetti

    TommyVecetti
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    Sorry if this is a dumb question that's already been answered, but when are the 1.1 standalone players going to be out in the UK?
     
  17. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    Not a dumb question at all....

    Not a single manufacturer to my knowledge has given any confirmed date for a profile 1.1 or 2.0 player to be released in the UK yet. :thumbsdow

    I'm sure they will come, but it would be nice to have some concrete info. If you hear anything then I'll update the 1.1 thread as appropriate.
     
  18. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
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