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Blu Ray omitting DTS?

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
I only have a limited experience with Blu Ray so far but, I have seen a number of discs where I would thought they would have a English DTS track (Black Hawk Down, Pirates of the Caribbean, Starship Troopers) and not have it. They have foriegn languages in DTS, but not English. The all have just LPCM 5.1 and DD 5.1 for English. Are the assuming people would have HDMI amps to do the audio?

So, do any BD's actually have English DTS (not inc DTS MA with DTS Core).
 
D

Deleted member 63670

Guest
I dont have a HDMI amp and would much prefer LPCM 5.1 on my discs over DTS any day.
 

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
No good to me though as I only get PCM as 2 channel. I would rather they put standard DTS on a disc rather than DD 5.1.
 

Indiana Jones

Distinguished Member
I dont have a HDMI amp and would much prefer LPCM 5.1 on my discs over DTS any day.

Without an HDMI amp though LPCM 5.1 tracks are downmixed to regular DD5.1 so wouldnt you prefer to also have a 1.5mbps DTS track on there too?

I dont have this problem as my amp can handle uncompressed PCM but I can see why nwgarratt might be annoyed.

My guess is that its either down to space or the studio's not thinking that additional audio tracks are needed when providing an HD audio track.
 

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
I can imagine downmixed PCM to DD would be better than a proper DTS and DD track. I think a PCM downmixed to 2 channel is astounding but lacks the surrounds. I assume this is because the bit rate is 4.6mbps on the discs I tried.

I did have the Samsung BDP 1500 which reencodes all HD audio through the optical output to DTS but it wasn't a good DVD player. I now have the Sony S350 which is much better but I only get DTS from DTSMA/DTS-HD. TrueHD gets turned into DD 5.1 and just 2 channel from PCM.

I just find it strange to omit English DTS when other languages are DTS. It would make sense for a UK disc to have English DTS and foreign languages in DD if there is no room for all DTS.

I can see myself in the future getting forced to upgrade my amp to the Sony STR DG820 to get the best out all the formats.
 
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D

Deleted member 63670

Guest
Without an HDMI amp though LPCM 5.1 tracks are downmixed to regular DD5.1 so wouldnt you prefer to also have a 1.5mbps DTS track on there too?

I dont have this problem as my amp can handle uncompressed PCM but I can see why nwgarratt might be annoyed.

My guess is that its either down to space or the studio's not thinking that additional audio tracks are needed when providing an HD audio track.

I use analogue 5.1s from my bluray player so lpcm is preferential to me, better than dd/dts over optical/coax anyday.
 

chelsea.tone

Distinguished Member
Surely because its HD Disc it would be HD Audio. If you had a CRT TV would you complain that its doesnt include a SD copy ? (not being sarcastic either)
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
The all have just LPCM 5.1 and DD 5.1 for English.

"Just" LPCM? :eek:

Are you aware that DTS-MA is just a way of 'zipping' an LPCM soundtrack to make it smaller?

LPCM & DTS-MA should be bit-for-bit identical, and the only possibility of any difference is if the DTS-MA soundtrack lost something in the 'zipping/unzipping'.

No good to me though as I only get PCM as 2 channel. I would rather they put standard DTS on a disc rather than DD 5.1.

Ah! If you don't have an HD amp, just use optical out - the player will downmixed to dts or DD - not sure what bitrate. The difference between dts 'core' and DD or dts downmixed from LPCM will be negligable, if noticeable at all.

Steve W
 
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nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
"Just" LPCM? :eek:

Are you aware that DTS-MA is just a way of 'zipping' an LPCM soundtrack to make it smaller?

LPCM & DTS-MA should be bit-for-bit identical, and the only possibility of any difference is if the DTS-MA soundtrack lost something in the 'zipping/unzipping'.



Ah! If you don't have an HD amp, just use optical out - the player will downmixed to dts or DD - not sure what bitrate. The difference between dts 'core' and DD or dts downmixed from LPCM will be negligable, if noticeable at all.

Steve W


I am aware of that. What I am saying is for those people with no analogue outs or HDMI amps. Some discs seem to be a downgrade from DVD in terms of audio as the DVD has DTS.

I cannot get DTS or DD from LPCM. It comes out at 2 channel PCM.

If DTSMA and LPCM is identical then why have it at LPCM at all, why not just have it as DTSMA and those who need DTS can use the DTS Core.
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
If DTSMA and LPCM is identical then why have it at LPCM at all, why not just have it as DTSMA and those who need DTS can use the DTS Core.
Surely, in the current situation, it is better for most to have LPCM? Given that DTS-HD MA is only decoded by a handful of players and receivers (albeit most new ones now) whereas most can handle multi-channcel LPCM, then it follows that more people will benefit from the lossless track with LPCM on the disc.

Personally I would like to see less LPCM and more TrueHD/DTS-HD MA though - simply because I think the latter both workout better if decoded on the receiver - but I can see why it's not done as standard yet.

I suspect DTS command a licence fee for encoding in the format as well...
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
I am aware of that. What I am saying is for those people with no analogue outs or HDMI amps. Some discs seem to be a downgrade from DVD in terms of audio as the DVD has DTS.

I cannot get DTS or DD from LPCM. It comes out at 2 channel PCM.

If DTSMA and LPCM is identical then why have it at LPCM at all, why not just have it as DTSMA and those who need DTS can use the DTS Core.

Back in the days of DVD dts was seen as better because it has a higher bitrate. DD was a more effeicient audio codec, and claimed it didn't need as high a bitrate, and so the argument went.

It may well be that your player outputs a bitrate of DD comparable than the dts version on your SD DVD.

With the old Toshiba HD-E1 the output was (I think) downmixed to dts 1.5mbps (can anyone confirm this - my memory is a bit shot). Most SD DVDs had dts of 768 kbit/s.

Steve W
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
With the old Toshiba HD-E1 the output was (I think) downmixed to dts 1.5mbps (can anyone confirm this - my memory is a bit shot).
Yeap, the E1 (and the XA1, A1 and A2) all output via coaxial as DTS 15.mbps. Strangely the superior XE1 and XA2 only output as DD - I suppose because people using those step up models wouldn't be using coaxial.
 

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
Back in the days of DVD dts was seen as better because it has a higher bitrate. DD was a more effeicient audio codec, and claimed it didn't need as high a bitrate, and so the argument went.

It may well be that your player outputs a bitrate of DD comparable than the dts version on your SD DVD.

With the old Toshiba HD-E1 the output was (I think) downmixed to dts 1.5mbps (can anyone confirm this - my memory is a bit shot). Most SD DVDs had dts of 768 kbit/s.

Steve W

DTS is better for me. It always has been better esp full bitrate. I only get DD on whatever it is it on the disc. DD on BD seems to be 640kbps.
 

Jas H

Established Member
Ah! If you don't have an HD amp, just use optical out - the player will downmixed to dts or DD - not sure what bitrate. The difference between dts 'core' and DD or dts downmixed from LPCM will be negligable, if noticeable at all.

Steve W


I also have a problem with this.

Can the PS3 output a downmixed DTS via optical out? How do you do it please?
 

Indiana Jones

Distinguished Member
I also have a problem with this.

Can the PS3 output a downmixed DTS via optical out? How do you do it please?

I am afraid not, it will downmix a DTSHD track to DTS core but PCM and TrueHD tracks are downmixed to DD.
 

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
I got the UK Kill Bill films today. They have uncompressed PCM and DD 5.1 for English. However, for German, Italian and Spanish they have both DD 5.1 and DTS. English DTS gets ignored again.

Are they trying to make people upgrade their amps/players?
 

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
I just hope the DD 5.1 is good as I am used to watching it in DTS on the DVD.

I can matrix the PCM sound to some sort of surround so I am going to see what that sounds like. PCM 5.1/7.1 tracks still sound excellent in 2 channel but I miss the surrounds.
 

IAN P

Distinguished Member
Ah yes the Jap dts disc,excellent track and the colour scenes were great.Not sure whether to wait for their version.:thumbsup:
 

nwgarratt

Distinguished Member
Ah yes the Jap dts disc,excellent track and the colour scenes were great.Not sure whether to wait for their version.:thumbsup:

I have the R2 DVD. Not bothered about the coloured scenes as the version for the West is supposed to be b&w. It was a homage to a 1970's kung fu series which had scenes in b&w to get through the censors but were in colour in Japan.
 

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