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Blu-Ray DTS Issue

MHB

Novice Member
I have a Sony Blu-Ray BDP-S5100 player going into a Yamaha RX-V995 Receiver. The problem I'm having is with two new DVDs from the band, Gentle Giant. The issue seems to be that when DTS Surround Sound is selected on the receiver and DTS 5.1 Master Audio is selected on the DVD, no sound is evident. However, if I put in a normal Blu-Ray DVD (such as Melancholia), the DTS Surround sound plays without a hitch. Also, a similar album DVD (not Blu-Ray) will also play in DTS Surround.
So the problem seems to be with these two discs only. My suspicion is that they are encoded with DTS-HD, like the Pink Floyd Immersible box sets, and may not play on this receiver as it is an older receiver with only light pipe inputs and not HDMI. The discs themselves do not indicate that these are in DTS-HD, but I suspect that it might be the case. Is there any way of telling if this is, in fact, is the problem? Or might it stem from some other source?
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
All HD audio such as DTS-MA or TrueHD are only possible if you connect with HDMI. Normal Blu-rays are required to also carry a non HD soundtrack such as Dolby Digital or DTS, hence why Melancholia Blu-ray plays the regular DTS soundtrack.

DVDs also are not capable of offering HD Audio. Only Blu-rays can offer HD audio. Please clarify whether the album you are trying to play is a Blu-Ray or a DVD.
 

ArmitageShanks

Prominent Member
Normal Blu-rays are required to also carry a non HD soundtrack such as Dolby Digital or DTS, hence why Melancholia Blu-ray plays the regular DTS soundtrack.
Not true. Most discs I've found contain only the HD soundtracks in the primary language.

What you need to remember is that DTS-MA soundtracks contain both the lossy core stream, and an HD extension (which is effectively a correction delta applied to the lossy stream). Your AV receiver simply ignores the HD extension and decodes the core stream, thereby giving you a regular full-bitrate DTS soundtrack.

My suspicion is that it's not a problem with the disc or DTS, but the bit-depth and sampling rate of the audio track. I'm guessing your receiver does not support 24-bit/96KHz audio (which is a common feature on music discs).
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
All HD audio such as DTS-MA or TrueHD are only possible if you connect with HDMI. Normal Blu-rays are required to also carry a non HD soundtrack such as Dolby Digital or DTS, hence why Melancholia Blu-ray plays the regular DTS soundtrack.

DVDs also are not capable of offering HD Audio. Only Blu-rays can offer HD audio. Please clarify whether the album you are trying to play is a Blu-Ray or a DVD.

Not true. Most discs I've found contain only the HD soundtracks in the primary language.

What you need to remember is that DTS-MA soundtracks contain both the lossy core stream, and an HD extension (which is effectively a correction delta applied to the lossy stream). Your AV receiver simply ignores the HD extension and decodes the core stream, thereby giving you a regular full-bitrate DTS soundtrack.
So which bit did I say is not true?:confused:
  • If he isn't connected via HDMI, he cannot get DTS-MA or TrueHD.
  • Choose any disc with a DTS-MA or TrueHD soundtrack, & there will be a lossy version of the same track on the disc that is picked up if your setup can't handle HD audio.
  • DTS-MA discs will play back DTS on a setup that can't handle DTS-MA. DTS-MA discs carry a lossy track, do they not (even if it's achieved via a lossy/HD stream)?
  • TrueHD discs will play back Dolby Digital (on the disc as a standalone track) on a setup that can't handle TrueHD. TrueHD discs carry a lossy track, do they not?
  • DVDs do not use DTS-MA or TrueHD.
 
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ArmitageShanks

Prominent Member
So which bit did I say that is not true?:confused:
The bit that says that Blurays are required to "also carry a non HD soundtrack". DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD are designed to be backward-compatible with standard DTS and DD equipment, so no additional audio track is necessary.

Besides, I don't think this is the issue. The issue lies with his Yamaha receiver only supporting up to 48KHz audio (I've had a quick look at the RX-V995 manuals). The problematic discs he's playing I'm pretty sure will have 96KHz soundtracks (whereas most Bluray film titles stick with 24-bit/48KHz).
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
The bit that says that Blurays are required to "also carry a non HD soundtrack". DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD are designed to be backward-compatible with standard DTS and DD equipment, so no additional audio track is necessary.

Besides, I don't think this is the issue. The issue lies with his Yamaha receiver only supporting up to 48KHz audio (I've had a quick look at the RX-V995 manuals). The problematic discs he's playing I'm pretty sure will have 96KHz soundtracks (whereas most Bluray film titles stick with 24-bit/48KHz).
No that is not true (look it up) Comparison of high definition optical disc formats - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A Quick Guide to HD Audio - Articles - DVDActive
High-Def FAQ: Blu-ray and HD DVD Audio Explained | High-Def Digest
TrueHD by itself is not backwardly compatible. If there is a TrueHD track, there needs to be a separate Dolby Digital track (sometimes hidden from menus). Put any of these discs you dispute & run BDinfo & you'll see a lossy track alongside the HD track.
DTS-MA is backwardly compatible by virtue of the way they do their lossy core+HD extension stream. TrueHD does not have this & requires a separate lossy Dolby track.
 
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ArmitageShanks

Prominent Member
Dolby TrueHD simply piggybacks a lossy DD stream alongside the lossless stream - it's still seen as one logical audio track on the disc (it's not "hidden", it's embedded which is what BDinfo is showing you).

But like I said, we're arguing over semantics - MHB's issue is that some of his album discs do not play, and the reason I suspect has little to do with HD/non-HD formats or the audio transport, but a limitation of his receiver to decode 96KHz soundtracks. :rolleyes:
 

hippo99

Distinguished Member
Dolby TrueHD simply piggybacks a lossy DD stream alongside the lossless stream
So why is
The bit that says that Blurays are required to "also carry a non HD soundtrack"
wrong then if you're saying TrueHD & DTS-MA have lossy streams 'by default'?
Maybe semantics but the opposite to what I said ie Blu-rays are not required to 'also carry a non HD soundtrack' is not correct either as it implies it's TrueHD/DTS-MA or bust, which isn't the case.
 

ArmitageShanks

Prominent Member
Give it a rest dude.
 

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