blu ray better for sound

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by pat clancy, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. pat clancy

    pat clancy
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    hi all,i was looking at som discs and it seems most blu ray have pcm 5.1 but only a few hddvd discs have true dolby and the rest dolby plus,so its a plus for blu ray from me,if the discs space is there all the hddvd should have true dolby,
     
  2. shaithis

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    Try listening to them, instead of reading what's on the cover to get a more informed opinion :rolleyes:

    There isn't that much between them IMO.
     
  3. MAW

    MAW
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    We assume you have an HDMI amp?
     
  4. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    When I compared PCM vs TrueHD I couldn't detect a difference.
     
  5. HugoFJH

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    I havent yet got a disc to directly compare but I have been impressed more with TrueHd than standard 5.1pcm

    I guess the audio transfer can be just as good (or bad) as the video transfer
     
  6. HeweyBoy101

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    Agreed - if audio is your thing then Blu-ray is the format of choice. I have both, but will generally find myself going Blu-ray based on the audio options. 5.1 pcm is far more frequent on Blu-ray as compared to TrueHD on HD DVD. One recent exception was Happy Feet, which had a Dolby THD track on HD DVD, but only DD 5.1 on Blu-ray.
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    pcm options are not coming from every studio by any means. Warner and Paramount have largely not used pcm, same as Fox but that does use a good DTS variant, if only we could decode it. Sony are a fan.
     
  8. TrevorS

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    In my opinion, whether LPCM 5.1 sounds noticably better than DD+ depends on the individual soundtrack, less so in the case of 640Kbps DD+. All things being equal, LPCM and DD-THD sound equivalent (both being lossless).

    FYI -- If 5.1 LPCM is definitely your cup-of-tea, then enjoy it while you can since I've read Sony plans to phase it out around the end of the year. Problem being it requires too much space given the need to support additional languages. I understand they plan to move towards DD-THD with the next generation of players (post October 2007 BR specs update).
     
  9. lfletcher

    lfletcher
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    Blu Ray is certainly more consistent with HD audio (PCM/DTS HD MA/TrueHD) than HD-DVD is. In fact I'd say its my biggest disappointment with HD-DVD so far, that so many of the discs don't use anything more than DD+ (whether thats 640kbps or 1.5mbps). Universal and Paramount should both be given a slap, because at least Warner tends to give their bigger movies the HD audio to go with the HD picture. Even the Weinstein company is including some HD tracks now, so the others should wise up. Best effort for audio goes to Buena Vista if you ask me, 24bit PCM on quite a few of their titles :smashin:

    I'm not saying 24bit PCM makes a bad soundtrack good, but at least they are offering the consumer something more.
     
  10. jackal

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    Nic, did you do a side by side on the Departed? I bought both the BD and HD DVD and could detect no difference between the respective PCM and DolbyTrueHD soundtracks.

    In the same vein there is little to choose between DTS HD (core) and DD+.

    With regard to the original post, it is inaccurate to say that lossless PCM is included on most discs - this is not the case. Most of the films from Warner (Departed excluded), Paramount, Fox and Lionsgate do not. The latter two preferring either DTS HD or DTS MA.
     
  11. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Yes, both good for such a soundtrack but I could not hear a difference.
     
  12. pat clancy

    pat clancy
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    thanks for all the replys,i wasn,t comparing dolby true and 5.1 pcm,just that bluray had mostly pcm and hddvd only the odd true dolby and the rest dd+,
     
  13. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Pat, that is simply down to how much space is needed. PCM is great but is very inefficient. HD DVD never used as it ate up too much space. BD did and stuffed everyone with the BD25 discs as it left nothing for extras. Now BD50s have arrived then additional stuff is also being added but even then I think they have realised all be it late that inefficient codecs for audio and viedeo is really not that smart a move. So although we get PCM now, this might not be the norm in a few years. It also meant making players were cheap for the first G1. TrueHD on HD DVD is mandatory at 2 channel (and all have given us 5.1 so far) but on BD it is optional codec with many players not including the decoding at all.
     
  14. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    mod comment: I've deleted a lot of the posts which were completely off topic. In the future, please count to ten (well perhaps 20) before jumping on peoples' posts. That goes equally for jumping on the jumpers too. Asking politely for a clearer post or very bad grammar is fine, but don't go in with both feet first.
     
  15. crobo

    crobo
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    I have heard some HD-DVD soundtracks that sound amazing with DD+, and I have been assuming that they must be high bitrate eg 1.5mbps. Are some actually much lower than this? And if they are, is there any site where details are given?
     
  16. TrevorS

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    Can't suggest a site, but it's very typical for Warner titles to have 640Kbps DD+. I think that's actually the floor for DD+.
     
  17. MAW

    MAW
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    Apart from the big titles like HP etc, which are trueHD.
     
  18. TrevorS

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    Not all "big" titles have TrueHD. I'm not sure exactly how studios decide when to include DD-THD, but my understanding is it's based on whether they feel the individual soundtrack will truly benefit. DD+ can deliver the goods very effectively for many soundtracks.

    Again, I can't point you to a website. If you peruse the specs of online title listings, you should find the information you want. Titles are being released in several countries.
     
  19. crobo

    crobo
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    Thanks for that. But how do you find out about these bitrates etc? The DVD sales sites (Movietyme, Amazon) don't tend to even specify DD+/TrueHD etc.
     
  20. Ian_S

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    HighdefDigest usually state the sound rate. Also, those of us using PC's can see quite quickly what the rates are!
     
  21. crobo

    crobo
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    Would it be an idea to have a sticky for this information? I think an awful lot of people would be interested.
     
  22. Sejour

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    Just a couple of supporting observations:

    Dolby TrueHD and PCM are bit for bit identical, so those people that don't hear any difference are hearing well. Sony and their cronies didn't want to pay Dolby a licence fee, so need to have Bluray discs filled with uncompressed audio. Mind you, given that the Dolby TrueHD process seems to be Meridian's lossless packing algorithm, the matrix of who owns what and who gets licence fees seem complex:rotfl:

    DD+ @ 640kbps is a joke, as that what DD should be (although is often less). The 1.5mbps version is the only real improvement.

    I think it stinks that many studios are releasing so called HD discs, when the audio is often not HD. HD is being sold on both video and audio benefits.:mad:
     
  23. TrevorS

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    This isn't actually correct. That is, perhaps you consider 640Kbps DD+ a joke, but the actual spec for DVD DD is maxed at 448Kbps. This means that 640Kbps DD+ is a VERY distinct improvement over virtually any and all DD DVDs. I'm only aware of one DVD with a 640Kbps DD track (Pink Floyd's Pulse Concert) and it includes a second DD track at a standard rate in order to satisfy the DVD Forum spec. Perhaps there's another somewhere, but I've yet to learn of it.

    If you've ever listened to a 384Kbps DD soundtrack, then you probably realize 448Kbps sounds significantly better, and yet there isn't really all that much bitrate difference. Well, 640Kbps is a significant step up over 448Kbps.

    I agree, I'd go for 1.5Mbps DD+ over 640Kbps DD+ any day of the week, but both are a dandy step forward from DVD DD 448Kbps.
     
  24. Apollo11

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    Hi, I'm a little confused about PCM, in the PS3 blu ray settings it allows you to change the optical output from 'Bitstream' to 'pcm'. If I do this I only seem to get Dolby Pro Logic. My amp is supposed to be able to cope with pcm but I didnt think it could be sent through optical, any idea?

    Regards.
     
  25. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The optical interface can only carry 2 channel PCM (like CD sound) and therefore you amp just receives a stereo signal from the PS3 and can only apply Pro Logic for multi channel recontruction. If you want multi channel from the optical link, set it at bitstream and it will send DD / DTS out. To use multichannel PCM use the HDMI interface.
     
  26. Apollo11

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    Ah, thanks for that, it makes total sense now, I now need a way to convert the hdmi multi signal to 'i link' as am told an 'i link' (firewire) connection should theoretically be able to decode the data. Really don't want to change the amp as is a superb bit of kit.

    Cheers.
     
  27. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I doubt you will find an easy way to convert between HDMI to IEEE1394 or HDMI to analogue without investing in new hardware.
     
  28. Apollo11

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    I think you may be right, it's surprising that no amps have yet been launched with DTS HD & DD True HD available. I guess I'll have to get a player with 7.1 analogue out but this seems such a backward way of doing things (takes me back nearly 10 years to when DD was first being used).
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    There are virtually zero plans for much beyond 5.1 atm. On another forum a member met with DTS recently and this was confirmed to him that all the studio plans are for 5.1 currently. We might get a little 6.1 or 7.1 in the future but I don't expect it to be main stream at all, just the odd disc at best. To get DTS HD HR and DTS HD MA & DD True HD 'externally' you will need both a HDMI 1.3 player and receiver, and even then there may well be significant issues due to internal 'mixing' that is needed. HD DVD is designed to do this stuff internally and doesn't need HDMI 1.3. BD gives you the option of buying another receiver if you want ;) HDMI 1.1 would be fine if the player decoded internally however and some BD players (no mine) have TrueHD and DTS HD HR decoders in the players. I think this is a better plan for BD standalones, with audio codecs on board outputting multichannel PCM on HDMI 1.1 and above.
     
  30. MAW

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    Doing the decoding in the player makes the interactive features, like commentaries etc much easier to work, maybe it's almost impossible if the player is outputting THD?? It also negates the necessity for yet another amp upgrade, for those of us with HDMI 1.1 amps. For those looking for 1.3, Onkyo will be selling a selection in a couple of months. Not sure what advantage it's actually going to be as almost all forecastable HD sound is likely to be outputted by the player as PCM multi. HDMI 1.3 could well turn out to be unnecessary in the end.
     

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