Black Hawk Down.

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by BadAss, Jan 19, 2002.

  1. BadAss

    BadAss
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    Just seen this tonight and wondered if I missed something, like a storyline? This film had good potential but went for an all out gun fest. Yes there was a point to be made, but why do you have to read it at the begining and at the end? Dont get me wrong, I enjoyed this film and would recomend it, but after a while the tesion drops and your waiting for somthing new to happen. Instead you get more of the same until the whole thing escalates into a full scale war. Imagine the gun shootout in Heat done as a two hour movie but with helicopters! Thats the best way to descibe BHD.
     
  2. Guest

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    The storyline is the events of the battle. It's a documentary as well as a film. It's a mostly accurate recreation of the events of the battle.
     
  3. bh

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  4. Juzminator

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    That sounds like my kinda movie :p
     
  5. Bone Daddy

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    Second that Mr `Juz` and Disc Emporium have it listed as coming out on the 18th july as a 2 disc ultimate edt`:D
     
  6. Harj

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    Historically, this event is known as a major cock up by the US military. The film does not touch upon why the Americans were disliked (they turned their peacekeeping role into a military one), about the botched planning, the green personnal (many were just out of their teens).


    The most disturbing fact is that over 1000 Somalis were killed including women and children, compared to 18 Americans, whose soldiers admitted to firing into crowds of men women and children.
     
  7. Rambo John J

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    I believe it was closer to 500 Somali's killed with 1000 injured. That's what the book says anyway, and it's a non fiction account. The book obviously paints a more "real" version of events and it's a cracking read aswell - pretty much unputdownable. I'd reccommend the book in an instant but I couldn't say about the film yet as I'm not seeing it til next Monday.
     
  8. buns

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    Personally i would have to say it was an ok film.....but i wouldnt really class it as a good one.......it just came up lacking.......i followed what was going on and such likes......but it was a bit narrow a subject......as someone commented it was just 2 and whatever hours of exactly the same thing. My own liking is to have something which has a whole series of plots and sub plots going on......but nothing against the film.....im sure plenty of ppl would enjoy it.

    ad
     
  9. Reiner

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    You should see how ****ed the Malaysian government is with the fact that their force was shown as "drivers" only though supposingly they actively contributed to the success of the mission. :D
     
  10. Guest

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    once again the great old us of A makes another one of there one sided, mind-blowing history changing war films. the soldier who Ewen McGregor played is now doing 12 years for raping a little girl, and the troops shot women and children. I cant stand yank war films with there "interpretations" of real life war events. Look at u-571 and saving private Ryan. The only US war films that had a trace of reality to them for me, were actually the works of fiction like full metal jacket, platoon and apocalypse now
     
  11. Harj

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    Sad thing is Sean, this may be a godd film ( I am a Ridley fan) but u are right i cant bear to see history mis-interperted for the sake of a few dollars. People will come out of the movie thinking only the way the film potrayed events.

    But changing historical as in U-571 and misinterperting them (Titanic, John Waynes 'Green Berets') is dangerous, almost brainwashing. Something the Third Reich and Stalin used to like doing.

    I don't need people saying to me that its a good movie anyway regardless of the background. That just would make the death of over 500 Somalis and 18 Americans a trivial matter for the sake of entertainment.
     
  12. Guest

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    Couldn't agree more. Oh, and i know s/private R is fiction, but where was the rest of the world
     
  13. Paden

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    Hello all
    First off I'll have to plead my ignorance, as I don't recall the events portrayed in this film & therefore can't comment on its historical accuracy.
    However having seen it last night, I'd have to say that the US were hardly shown in a good light, other than the "no one gets left behind" bit.
    Surely they were shown to have grossly underestimated the situation & to have no real backup plan when things went pear shaped.
    It amazes me how any army finds recruits when war is shown in films like this to be very scary & ultimately unpredictable, however high tech the army.
    I did "enjoy" the film though.
    Cheers, Paul.
     
  14. BadAss

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    I don't think the film was up to Ridleys usual quality. If it didn't have his name on the credits you'd never know that it was his. All the Ridley style and artistic input we've come to love went out of the window. What you have instead is "RPG!" every 10 minutes. When you look at his previouse films this one has to be his worse, Hanable being the second but even that had Style. What they should of done is write a story loosly based on what happen in this battle and make up the rest inorder to divide the battles into 5 seperate action sequences where each has its own sub plot. If I'm the one paying to see it I dont care how historically acurate it is as long as it the best Movie it could of been.
     
  15. Reiner

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    If the movie is fiction than that's fine but IMHO it is not alright to claim portraying historical events and then twisting them to your liking (or leaving other related important events out).
    That comes close to propaganda and we all know where this can lead to ...
     
  16. Rambo John J

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    I agree with Reiner. Especially when it's such a recent event.
    We've all got our own opinions of things but for me, it's based on the book and the book deals with nothing for 500 pages except the battle. Period. If they'd added in a Pearl Harbor style love story for an hour at the beginning and another 45 minutes of "after the event" guff at the end (and maybe throw in the odd tangerine sunset aswell ;) ) it would be totally ruined. Obviously it's not going to be to everyone's taste, but in order to be as faithful to the book/event as moviedom will allow them, they really have to follow the same route as the book and deal with the battle and only the battle.
    Maybe it would help people to understand things if they picked the book up - it's probably the most intense thing I've ever read and would probably help folks understand why they've made the film the way they have. If nothing else, it'll have you gripped from start to finish...if it doesn't give you brainmelt first through it's unrelenting intensity - no subplots, no love interest, just unadulterated brutal violence from beginning to end. I'd imagine its the closest thing to the confusion of a real war I'd ever want to get.

    Just my tuppence. :)
     
  17. Reiner

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    Yet there are certain facts which have been left out and that makes the movie historically inaccurate. That was the point I wanted to make.
     
  18. Rambo John J

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    There's me grabbing the wrong end of the stick.
    Now I get your point I can't help but agree with you. When there's information that's "significant" being left out of the equation it does conjure up a different picture of events. I don't see any point in the way certain things just seem to get left out of any film that's supposed to be portraying an event from history, especially recent history.
    My comments above were purely about the style of the film which is pretty much faithful to the style of the book. Except the film doesn't bother to give the viewer some of the important info that the book does.
    Pretty much usual these days though, which is a shame.
     
  19. BadAss

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    If the film aint 100% acurate then why not throw in a bit more fiction to let a story evolve. I can understand what you say about it being a recreation of a battle where there was no story. But I go to the movies to watch a movie not for a history lesson. It may seem good at the time one relentless shoot out but it dont leave much viewing for when the DVD comes out. Saving Private Ryan, Pearl Harbour were based on actual events yet managed to tell a fictional story aswell. Maybe BHD should of concentrated more on one charactor, and thrown in a couple of babes too. ;)
     
  20. Guest

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    The thing is that when it comes to war films like this, the yanks do so much flag waving that it sickens me. The so called Vietnam tragedy for America, (it was my arse) how many American civilian women and children died in Vietnam? 0. Look at what there doing with the yank taliban guy. It's one rule for them and another for the world. Add more action if it makes the film better ,but events like Somalia are too important to just make into an action movie. why no scenes of them shooting women and children? because the Americans public wouldn't like it. A program like Bloody Sunday would never get made in the US, they would say that the makers were "un-American" There attitude is the truth gets in the way of a good story. Yes saving private R was set around the D day landing, but like i've said before. Where was the rest of the world. The yanks are the only country to have used atomic weapons against another. They are far from hero's
     
  21. philmate

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    The Americans have done a lot of good things and a lot of bad things. If they had'nt dropped them god damn awfull atomic bombs how many more people would have died violently through hand to hand fighting right up to Japan's capital including civilians taking their childrens lives and then their own rather than be captured by the Yanks who through propaganda were devils out to rape and mutilate....mmmm but then they infested the world with plastic height indusing crap called Mc'Donalds....Right then back to the J.D.

    Philmate.
     
  22. Guest

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    Last night the history channel showed The true story of Black Hawk Down.
    I havnt seen the film yet,but this documentary was fantastic with a lot of actual footage shot by a somalian with a video camera as it happened.
    There were 13 u.s.soldiers killed and 73 wounded.
    The amount of Somalis killed was between 1,000 and 3,000!

    Some of the Somalis footage was shown on C.N.N. at the time and resulted in a huge backlash by the american public demanding that u.s.troops be pulled out of Somalia-which they were once the downed helicopter pilot was returned.(..this was in fact one of Colwyn Powells demands that had to be met to pull out u.s.troops.If this didnt happen he threatened to level Mogadishu.The Somalis returned the pilot.)
    As far as women and children being killed,like Vietnam,the u.s.soldiers faced attack from the people-women and children were shooting Kalashnikovs-footage that the Somailian shot prooved this.
    The u.s.Rangers interviewed had no desire to kill women and children but in most instances were firing at people attacking en masse.
    Horrific scenes were shown in the documentary of u.s.soldiers stripped and mutilated being dragged through the streets in their pants whilst Somalis were stepping on them and laughing.
    The interesting thing in this,is that AIDID who the operation was supposed to secure ,was superceeded by his son(..an ex u.s.marine) and to date,the situation is as bad-if not worse....
    Doug.
     
  23. Guest

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    Doug Americans killed unarmed women and children in Vietnam, don't think that it could not of happened again. Americans put themselves above every other country in the world.
    Your right, they would have levelled the place for 1 soldier,that's their way. If it saves 1 American soldier being killed, level the place and to hell with the consequences. I suppose the people killed on bloody Sunday were all armed as well. You seem like a peace loving guy, you now we get a diluted story from the military. God knows what goes on in our name.
     
  24. Guest

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    Sean,
    I think this,war is wrong period-killing is wrong..the only justification is in self defence in protection of oneself or ones loved ones.
    In a situation where-for instance-my wife was in mortal danger-I would kill.
    But I could never have been a mindless robot that killed strangers because my c.o.told me to do it.
    I believe that the army and the police are the soldiers of the rich and powerful who dictate who they fight and arrest.
    The terrorism laws passed quickly after September have removed what facsimile of freedoms we had-now you can be arrested and held indefinately without charge or trial on the say so of a phone call!~
    The world is moving towards one huge police state with the americans as the policeman and Blair and his sycophants as the hangers on to the u.s.glory.
    To understand why all the wars-what do they achieve etc..one must understand the march towards one world government..one centralised bank..microchipped population..
    There will be curfews,you will be tracked everywhere electronicaly,cameras everywhere,a credits financial system.
    You will survive at the will of the government..it is then that people will realise -too late-that the prison has been created from the inside.
    Already we have one foot in the matrix-created greed and created wars will allow the government to put us wholly in.
    create problem=create solution.
    Governments through the monetary system flow have bankrupted countries and made them totally dependant on loans...affluent societys buy into the materialistic lie-become dependant-and then have the plug pulled in a created recession.
    Every time afterwards you are deeper in.
    How do we free ourselves?
    Do not vote for any of the fools in labour/conservative/liberal(same party -different divisions).
    Do not buy any products from exploited countries.
    Read Hidden Agenda by John Pilger.(..and similar)
    MAKE LOVE NOT WAR..
    Do not buy into the materialistic trap.
    Do not buy foods from supermarkets.
    Do not buy products that have been tested on animals.
    Do not buy toothpaste with Fluoride in .(Flouride is a mind suppresant and years ago was used as a rat poison.)
    Do not drink alchohol with chemicals in.
    Do not smoke.
    Bake your own bread.
    Grow your own food.
    Be careful with the water you drink(tap water has seven times the amount of allowed radiation in.)
    You will see above these are just a few things that are entrapping and ruining the ultimate quality of our life.
    Add this to created wars and chaos,created urban problems,created financial dependance-and you have a recipe for control-both of the mind and body.
    Whilst we argue about who are the goodies and the baddies we miss the point.war is wrong.
    But if you really want to point the finger-point it at the u.s.and Allen Dulles of the c.i.a.-point it at the Clintons,the Bush`s(..all members of the same freemasonic groups..all involved with Bilderberg)..point it at the Rothschilds and the Rockerfellers.
    There have always been a few evil bastards that have to all intents and purposes controlled society for their own ends-I mean Rothschilds were heavily involved in the company I.G.Farben-guess who they bankrolled?..Hitler.
    What Rothschild -a jew ..bankrolling Hitler.
    Of course,evil knows no ethnic divisions and the pursuit of power and world domination can take many faces and alliances.
    The biggest myth is that our queen has no power.
    Yeah,thats why every prime minister since the late fifties has gone downon bended knee once per week to give reports on the state of the nation etc.
    The aristocracy own almost 90% of the land in the u.k.,the top 100 land owners in the u.k.(bar three)are aristocracy.
    All the top bank managers,police chiefs,army and navy top brass,belong to the same masonic groups as all these aristocratic landowners-presided over by the queen-coincidence?
    This isnt a conspiracy theory-its conspiracy fact-check it out and you will see I am correct.
    ..Just another aside,the queen is the biggest landowner in Kentucky-land bought in her name through the Virginia trading company.
    More land is owned by the british aristocracy in the u.s.than it was before the American war of Independance.(..thats a laugh..).
    In fact 48 of the signess of the decleration of independance were masons affiliated to...the lodge of King George of England..
    How do you ensure you win the game?...you own both the teams...
    Doug:confused:
     
  25. Guest

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    Doug, I'm a realist. I know that the world our children will inherit, will be a be a poorer place then the one we lived in. I know that over-consumerism is raping the planet of it's natural resources. The love of the car & wooden furniture is combining to rob us of the very air we breath.
    Man is little more then a parasite on this planet, we eat more then we need, over produce, we destroy natural habitats and species through islandization. Truth is the planet would be better off without us. But i live my life, and i love my life, I do what i can to make a difference. But i drive my car, i am a consumer. Don't bake my own bread,i drink tap water-lots of it. I am against war (no i'm not a tree hugging hippy), but i realise that some times it's the only option.Just don't do it in my name...

    Anyway, that's enough of that. This is a piece from the guardian

    Black Hawk Down accused of airbrushing history

    Friday December 21, 2001



    Black Hawk Down, the fact-based war movie from director Ridley Scott and producer Jerry Bruckheimer, stands accused of changing the names to protect the guilty. The film tells of heroic American soldiers in 1990s Somalia. But it was revealed this week that the inspiration behind one of the leading characters is currently serving a 30-year sentence for child abuse.
    In Black Hawk Down, Ewan McGregor plays the character of Ranger John Grimes as a clean-cut everyman hero. That trouble is that Grimes is merely Ranger John "Stebby" Stebbins in disguise. In June 2000 Stebbins was court-marshalled and later found guilty of assault and rape of a girl under the age of 12.

    Mark Bowden, who wrote the Black Hawk Down book and screenplay, this week told the New York Post that he was pressurised by the Pentagon to change Stebbins's name in order to avoid controversy. Bowden refused to do so in the book, but eventually capitulated when writing the screenplay.

    Stebbins's ex-wife, for one, is angered by the changes. In a letter to the New York Post, Nora Stebbins wrote that: "[producers] are going to make millions off this film, in which my ex-husband is portrayed as an all-American hero, when the truth is he is not."

    Well if the Pentagon smoothes something like that over. What else did they do that we don't know about.
     
  26. philmate

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    Anyone seen David Ike?:D
     
  27. Guest

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    I know this is all gettin a bit sting. I'll be tryin to save the rain forest next. If i go on like that again, someone please slap me in the face with a big wet fish. Give doug one while your at it.
     
  28. Guest

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    Sorry if Ive come over all hippified(..im not..),Its just I liken life to chess-how can we make the right moves when we do not understand the moves being made against us?
    IT GOES DEEPER THAN..IS Black Hawk Down a whitewash ?...of course it is-everything is..

    As far as David Icke,
     
  29. Guest

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    Sorry if Ive come over all hippified(..im not..),Its just I liken life to chess-how can we make the right moves when we do not understand the moves being made against us?
    IT GOES DEEPER THAN..IS Black Hawk Down a whitewash ?...of course it is-everything is..

    As far as David Icke,..Well I kinda admire the guy..I dont agree with everything he says-Im certainly unsure about his conviction that the ruling elite of the world are an ancient shapeshifting reptilian race!!(..mind you Neo didnt know he was in the matrix?)

    ..But there is a ruling elite thats for sure(reptilian in nature certainly..)

    But this guy Icke gave up everything he had to espouse his theories and was lambasted everywhere for it(especially in the media-that alone makes me think he might have something..)-and for the courage of his convictions and seeing them through Ive gotta admire him-say what you like about Icke-but he is earning money doing something he believes in-unlike most of the people in their 9 to 5 boring jobs.

    But Hollywood is the biggest propaganda machine of all-always has been-in 1,000 years someone will dig up some old movies and think that America won the 2nd world war,Bosnia,The gulf-all single handed!

    But the good old yanks keep the lie going..keep interfering in other countries business-all in the name of right of course-and what makes me laugh is that the dumb old public never question for long-as long as they get a hollywood movie out of it!!!..I mean ;-did they get Bin Laden?..did they get Saddam?
    ..Mobutu(..hes living in Portugal on the Algarve now..)..what about Adolf Eichmans cronies that formulated the final solution to the jews?...no most of them got away-some even moved to the u.s. and escaped trial!!...von Braunn-he went to work for the u.s.government...and so on...and so on...
    Doug..;)
     
  30. Juzminator

    Juzminator
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    From Black Hawk Down, to fluoride being used as a "mind suppressant", to ruling reptilians eh?

    No offence, but all these so called "conspiracies" have been covered by the X-Files and regular media many, many times.

    It all goes back to pre-history; those who were strongest/nastiest/craftiest got the best bit of meat....nothing's changed since then.

    People just aren't happy unless they've got someone to point the finger at and cry "conspiracy"....if that helps you through your day, then great, but it doesn't help me through mine - it just seems like being a crybaby, always shouting "It's THEY'RE fault we're in this mess."

    Oh, and another thing: isn't it just soooo trendy and subversive to blame the US for everything? God, I thought only students were inclined to be so *ahem* daring as to question the US's actions....obviously not. I'm not "pro" US, BTW...just must appear that way in light of all you (apparently) "anti" USA types.

    Feel free to flame away.

    BTW - anyone else notice that these forums have got a damn sight more "sensationalist" in the last coupla months or so? Or is it just me?
     

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