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black and white laws

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Gary D, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. Gary D

    Gary D
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    i went to a party last weekend and i had 1 pint of bitter and i was on my back (i dont drink you see) but i could have driven home in that state legally as i wouldn't have been over the limit (i'm 6ft 2in and 14 and a half stone)

    so what do you all think of the following BLACK AND WHITE laws:

    1. caught drink driving - immediate life time ban ( you know the risks before you get into the car so dont come bleating when you are caught.)

    2. Rape - castration for all convicited rapists.

    3. Mugging - have a the word "mugger" tattooed onto your forehead so people know forever.



    any more?


    Gary
     
  2. Razor

    Razor
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    Dont ever go for a job as a prison wardener. :eek:

    Would you chop someones hands off if they stole??? :confused:

    What about wrong convictions? :confused:

    Pedafiles shouldnt be let loose in our society. They are broken humans and nothing can change these people. I think they should be placed on an island and left there to rot.
     
  3. Gary D

    Gary D
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    i'm not taking about wrong convictions - i'm talking about 100% certainty (i'm anti death penality by the way) and please before people pile on and say there is no such thing - we all know there is.

    its just that sometimes the law can be very vague and people can use that to their avantage (i.e. i'm famous, or i'm loaded, or i'm well connected)

    dont you think it would be safer if you knew that you cant drink before you get behind the wheel rather than wondering if your safe.

    Gary
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Why stop there - why not a lifetime ban for speeding, driving without a valid MOT, driving with illegal tyres or even for using a mobile phone for driving as all of them are deemed to be dangerous.
     
  5. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    There is no such thing Gary. There is always reasonable doubt. To get a conviction you have to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" but that does not infer that reasonable doubt does not still exist just that in an an actual conviction the burden of proof was "greater" and more compelling than the "reasonable doubt".

    Its also the main reason we don't have the death penalty , although personally whilst I think convicted felons are the burden and responsibility of the society that allowed them to exist and merely killing them is an all too easy get out for the society in question. I do agree with the death penalty in certain circumstances ( treason against the state for example .... bye bye tube bombers).

    There is also the possibility of personal realisation by convicted criminals. Its too easy to regard criminals as beyond any sort of redemption. Remember a lot of the convicted criminals in this country are comparatively young . Many people do radically change their personalities as they age past their early twenties.

    Too easy and dangerous to dehumanise criminals ...doesn't help anyone and ofers no possibility of improving a bad situation.
     
  6. Razor

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    Agreed.
     
  7. Razor

    Razor
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    Illuminati :rolleyes:
     
  8. spocktra

    spocktra
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    The drink limit should be zero, this would take the doubt for many away.
     
  9. Gary D

    Gary D
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    I think the point i'm trying to make is that the law is an ass. all i'm saying is that i can get into a car after a pint and drive it even though i'm not safe.

    surely it would be safer for the limit to be zero then we all know where we stand.

    Gary
     
  10. HMHB

    HMHB
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    But how would you know that you have no alcohol in your system ? If you have a few pints Sunday night this means that there could still be traces in your system Monday morning and you would be done for it, even if you are well below the limit.
     
  11. johndon

    johndon
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    I certainly agree with the life time ban for drink drivers - it's not like there's any excuse for it. Personally I also think that the ban for driving in excess of 100mph on a motorway should be far stiffer as well - it's not like you can 'accidentally' drive that fast...

    John
     
  12. Dr Diversity

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    What about race crimes - send to live in an area where the offender is in the racial minority?

    Parking offences - made to drive a Smart car
    Shop lifting, made to shop at Lidl
    Tax evasion, slapped on emergency tax for life
     
  13. Gary D

    Gary D
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    maybe that is something to think about before they get bladdered on sunday night - comes down to being responsible for yourself. but it kind of proves the point really.

    Gary
     
  14. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I was under the impression the alcohol limit was there to prevent false positives arising from the natural presence of ethanol in the body , rather than any tacit approval of an acceptable drinking limit.
     
  15. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    This would qualify as "cruel and ususual punishment" surely.
     
  16. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    Not me. I drove 4 miles to pub yesterday. I drank one pint. The rest of the family got bladdered. I knew I was below the limit and was 100% sure I would be in total control of my car, no matter what might happen on the way home. :)
     
  17. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    why the arbitrary figure of 100mph ?

    you can't accidentally drive at 85mph either. What specificall warrants 'heavy / heavier' bans / penalties on driving specifically over 100mph ... being that motorways are the safest roads.
    Its the equilalent ( 142% ) in doing 43mph in a 30 .. or 57mph in a 40 - something I see regularly, and these roads are far more dangerous and have far more accidents.

    I was just wondering if you plucked the figure / idea out of the air ... or based it on sound reasoning ?
     
  18. HMHB

    HMHB
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    But surely the alcohol thing isn't just about getting bladdered. If I have a pint now, when does that leave my system completely and how do I know it's left my system completely ? Some people keep the alcohol in their system for longet than others so I don't see how this can work unless everyone is provided with a testing kit !
     
  19. Gary D

    Gary D
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    i think that proves my point john as it is to arbitry.

    Gary
     
  20. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    its supposed to be approx 3hrs per unit ... but as you say that will be dependant on the individuals metabolism, what else they drank and ate, how much exercise etc they get.

    with zero tolerance, someone having a bottle of wine on sunday afternoon could potentially loose their license by having trace amounts of alcohol in their system the next morning.

    example:
    5 or 6 glasses of wine over a 4 hr period from 1pm Sunday at the neighbours barbeque .... means you will be introuble driving to work monday morning with a zero tolerance.
     
  21. Gary D

    Gary D
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    and thats a bad thing? with the amount of booze being consumed these days it could have an added bonus of making the roads safer and getting people onto public transport.

    Gary
     
  22. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    ..... thats 18hrs ..... you would be under the drink drive limit ... and most probably safe .... but if you have ZERO tolerance, it means you would loose your license.

    I'm just considering how many people that would affect. ( not me as it happens - as I don't drink regularly - and when I go on a bender its with days spare and no vehicles )

    ( to put ZERO tolerance in perspective .... eating a couple of pickled onions would make you fail the test )
     
  23. Nobber22

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    And if you had a steak with brandy sauce or wine in your gravy? Zero tolerance is too harsh. :nono:
     
  24. GrahamC

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    I have no trouble with the range or tariffs of punishment as statute at the moment. The problem I and a great many of the public have is the implementation of these punishments. Parole is far to easy to get. The reduction of sentence should be earned by good and productive behaviour not just as an automatic right. Judges should set the term and offenders should have to earn any reduction from that. At the moments a 5 stretch actually means 3.

    No such thing as black and white when attached to the human condition. Medications can alter the makeup of your blood, what about that double helping of sherry trifle and those special cigs that you got from the boozer the other night.
     
  25. HMHB

    HMHB
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    Agreed zero tolerance is too harsh and unworkable, there are just too many variables to consider.
     
  26. Gary D

    Gary D
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    what variables? its simple if your going to drive then dont drink - whats variable about that? at least you know where you stand before drinking on sunday afternoon.

    Gary
     
  27. Ian J

    Ian J
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    It is illegal to be in charge of a vehicle when incapable through drink and if that is one pint in your case you would be breaking the law.

    It is also illegal to be in charge of a vehicle with more than a legally prescribed amount of alcohol in the bloodstream but that is something completely different and they are completely different laws.
     
  28. Gary D

    Gary D
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    yes Ian thats true - but its arbitry how do you prove it - you need a measurement. just because johnny copper says so? that wouldn't hold up in court.

    gary
     
  29. davehk

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    No, because the body can produce alcohol itself and it would be possible to someone who never drinks to fail a test with a zero limit.
     
  30. Dr Diversity

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    There are the measurement used to determine drug taking. These could be applied to low tolerance alcohol drunkeness. Might need a test case but you would not want to go there.
     

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