Bizarre view of potential employer.

Jules

Distinguished Member
I've been self employed for the last 3 years and things have been generally pretty good for me.

However, a recruitment advisor representing a large company contacted me and said 'Hey... we're hiring for this role and we'd like you to apply'. At the time they knew I was self employed and we discussed it at length. They asked what would I be looking for if I returned to a permanent role.
All sounded good on both sides.

The role genuinely sounded exciting, so I applied and went for an interview. I was sufficiently serious about the opportunity to decline a freelance job in order to attend the interview.

The interview went well and I seamed to get on with interviewers.
However, I've just been given feedback that I have all the necessary skills and experience they were looking for..... BUT, the hiring manager does not like previously self employed candidates so they will not be offering the role.

WTF ! Thanks for wasting my time and money!!

Is this a typical view of employers at the moment?
 
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Desmo

Distinguished Member
Whether it's a typical view or not doesn't really matter. If it's their view then why did they bother to take it any further knowing your background? Sounds like time and effort wasted for both sides.
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
If it's their view then why did they bother to take it any further knowing your background? Sounds like time and effort wasted for both sides.
Precisely. I'd be absolutely fine with 'not the right fit for our team', or 'we're looking for more skills in area X or Y'. But to quote a potential issue that had already been discussed before both parties made the effort to interview, is frankly disrespectful.
 

BobBob21

Well-known Member
It's not a new view at all, its one that some people have held for a very long time.

I guess it depends a little on how "truly" self employed you are but I've heard concerns expressed around "taking orders", dealing with office politics, structure etc which all typically is lighter or simply doesn't exist as a self employed person. Plus add on top that typically you'll make more money (at least in the cash element) if your self employed and so people also have concern that you go perm, remember why you were self employed and leave again.

As to wasting time, well that's true on both sides. Personally I'd look at the agent as they tend to lie to both sides but could be a key issue which the hiring manager didn't make clear to others who may have been doing the short lists for interviews etc
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
I am a freelancer operating through my own limited company...there are no other share holders or employees.

The thing is, if I hadn't been made redundant 4 years ago I wouldn't be self employed now.

We live in a strange world.
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
It's not a new view at all, its one that some people have held for a very long time
What a shame.

More and more people are going self employed... largely because big businesses are constantly restructuring and making staff redundant.

But, only a fraction of new small businesses are successful in the long term.

So, if this view persists there will be thousands of quality candidates stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Nonsense really.
 

jassco

Distinguished Member
Tell them they've wasted your time. They owe you an apology for pissing you around in my book.
Agreed - I told someone this after they even brought me back in for a second interview, then rejected me based on a lack of experience in a certain area that was evident from my CV.
 

Graham27

Well-known Member
As others have said - certainly not a new view, but mistifying why they've gone so far down the line when this was their view. It's possible their internal recruiter will now have a slapped bum for the whole thing, but it could also be for other reasons which aren't immediately obvious.

Sadly, I've known a lot of people go through with interviews where it's never going to happen, and for no good reason. One of my mates drove from Glasgow to London for an interview for a job which he was later told he was never going to get.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
In these days of a US style compensation culture, companies have to be very careful what they say, so the reason given may not be the real one.
 

BobBob21

Well-known Member
In these days of a US style compensation culture, companies have to be very careful what they say, so the reason given may not be the real one.
Most simply don't say anything these days, not purely for compensation reasons but also to avoid arguments after.
 

clc.sheff

Distinguished Member
I went back into normal employment after being self employed and it didn't go well at all.
I've been self employed for the last 3 years and things have been generally pretty good for me.

However, a recruitment advisor representing a large company contacted me and said 'Hey... we're hiring for this role and we'd like you to apply'. At the time they knew I was self employed and we discussed it at length. They asked what would I be looking for if I returned to a permanent role.
All sounded good on both sides.

The role genuinely sounded exciting, so I applied and went for an interview. I was sufficiently serious about the opportunity to decline a freelance job in order to attend the interview.

The interview went well and I seamed to get on with interviewers.
However, I've just been given feedback that I have all the necessary skills and experience they were looking for..... BUT, the hiring manager does not like previously self employed candidates so they will not be offering the role.

what the fudge ! Thanks for wasting my time and money!!

Is this a typical view of employers at the moment?

I tried going back into normal employment a couple of times after being self employed for 10 years and it didn't go well for me at all. For a start it is frustrating if you haven't got the interest and ear of management because you have ideas you want to explore. The culture is harder to change and you are expected to fit in more. It can be a wholly frustrating experience after being your own boss.

Being self employed involves trying to do everything to the best of your ability and most importantly working with your weaknesses rather than being hampered by or judged by them. My experience is that this is the opposite from dealing with the internal politics of normal employment.

Having been self employed you start to work for someone else thinking you might have something different to offer and make a contribution. However quite often what they really want is someone who will fill a void they already have defined in their mind and a void already defined by everyone else working around it. That can be a difficult transition to make if you are used to just getting on with anything and everything that is put in front of you ( irrespective of whether it is a strength or not ).
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the replies chaps.

I've had chance to reflect on this and, with the help of some earlier comments concluded I may have dodged a bullet.

The irritation I felt a few hours ago has reminded me how I felt on a more regular basis as an employee in a big corporate.

I'm also going to send a follow up email to the recruiter.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
I'm handcuffed by a golden pension but if I was starting from fresh these days I would do one of two things

1 - get a few years experience under my belt in a permanent and then go contracting

2 - stick with permanent roles but change employer every few years

From my long experience the best opportunity to get a career and pay improvements is when you join a new company. After that, especially these days of low inflation it is difficult to improve your position once you are in place.

Employers are just like insurance, TV services, mobile phone etc. loyalty is no longer rewarded, it is taken advantage of.

BTW I think the OP did dodge a bullet - if that really was what the employee was thinking imagine if he said nothing, took the OP on, but continued to think like that.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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BobBob21

Well-known Member
From my long experience the best opportunity to get a career and pay improvements is when you join a new company. After that, especially these days of low inflation it is difficult to improve your position once you are in place.

I've been contracting for several years now but not sure I see that much of a change in the perm market as an outsider looking in. I still maintain that to get promotions its easier from within but agree totally that you get the payrise by switching organization.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
If you switch firms every few years you will get a 5-10% automatic bump for switching, but you do lose out on building tenure and long service benefits gives you a few extra bits and bobs like holidays but also could be quite significant if you ever get made redundant.

I personally won't be changing firms now - the effort of re-establishing yourself and your record is not worth it for a 5-10% bump. Of course if someone wants to add 50-100% to my salary, or the current job tanks it would be a different story :)
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
If you switch firms every few years you will get a 5-10% automatic bump for switching, but you do lose out on building tenure and long service benefits gives you a few extra bits and bobs like holidays but also could be quite significant if you ever get made redundant.

I personally won't be changing firms now - the effort of re-establishing yourself and your record is not worth it for a 5-10% bump. Of course if someone wants to add 50-100% to my salary, or the current job tanks it would be a different story :)

Build up of pension is less important now because they are mostly defined contribution types and therefore, you can take them from job to job.

Extra holidays - in my job I built up 2 days for 10 years of service. It isn't a huge amount.

Continuous service - I accept this one, provides more cushion if made redundant and might even deter your employer from making you redundant - my employer would have to hand me £120k in redundancy so would probably choose someone else if there wasn't a huge difference in our abilities.

But basing your career path on potential redundancy is a rather negative approach.

But I also agree that as you begin to see retirement over the horizon your attitude does tend to change to one of stability.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
What I saw from my many years working in a large corporate, was that the continual restructuring and redundancies created a culture of unmotivated staff 'hanging on' for a redundancy payment.

I know of dozens of old timers who were made redundant at 60+ years of age, intending to retire within the next couple of years anyway, but paid off with £100K plus redundancy payment.

If you're made redundant when you're young its a blow you deal with and move on, but towards the end of your working life its like winning the lottery.
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
Build up of pension is less important now because they are mostly defined contribution types and therefore, you can take them from job to job.

Extra holidays - in my job I built up 2 days for 10 years of service. It isn't a huge amount.

Continuous service - I accept this one, provides more cushion if made redundant and might even deter your employer from making you redundant - my employer would have to hand me £120k in redundancy so would probably choose someone else if there wasn't a huge difference in our abilities.

But basing your career path on potential redundancy is a rather negative approach.

But I also agree that as you begin to see retirement over the horizon your attitude does tend to change to one of stability.

Cheers,

Nigel

It's not so much basing it on redundancy but rather it puts a big dent in taking an opportunistic smallish raise by switching firms (for me). The holiday, pension bonus etc is good but not a deciding factor.

And that's before you start to consider things like long-term vested bonuses - although if you are that good, your new employer will 'buy' them for you.
 

scarty16

Well-known Member
you are not self employed according to the HMRC

Working for yourself

You’re probably self-employed if you:

  • run your business for yourself and take responsibility for its success or failure
  • have several customers at the same time
  • can decide how, where and when you do your work
  • can hire other people at your own expense to help you or to do the work for you
  • provide the main items of equipment to do your work
  • are responsible for finishing any unsatisfactory work in your own time
  • charge an agreed fixed price for your work
  • sell goods or services to make a profit (including through websites or apps)
Many of these also apply if you own a limited company but you’re not classed as self-employed by HMRC. Instead you’re both an owner and employee of your company.
 

Desmo

Distinguished Member
THREAD BUUUUUUUUMMMPPPPP!!!!!
 

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