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bipole speakers - positioning

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by garry_brock, Sep 28, 2001.

  1. garry_brock

    garry_brock
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    Hi,

    I am looking to buy centre speaker and surrounds very soon for my system. Currently have Mission 734i floor-standers as the main pair (can't really have a sub as I live in a flat!, but guess the missions can handle plenty of bass)

    Problem I have is that the rears are very limited as to possible placement. Basically they are gonna have to go on the rear wall, facing directly out into the room (which is 4metre square) and they're also gonna be high up (almost ceiling height). The sofa is also on the back wall.

    I was thinking of bi-pole Missions (77ds), I know ideally they should go on the side walls, but this aint possible due to a door being in the way!

    Haven't bought the amp yet, but am looking at either Denon 1802 or Marantz 5200.

    Anybody got any suggestions please???
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I have a similar problem with a settee pushed right against the back wall but I have mounted bipoles on the side wall firing forward and backwards which you have said you cannot do.

    I have a similar problem to you as I have just gone 6.1 and need a "proper" rear speaker. A forward facing speaker will be too close and a bipole will fire from left to right so I am therefore contemplating one of these new technology flat speakers.

    Voice matching will be terrible for me as the rear centre will be nothing like the "side" rears but would be less of a problem for you.

    There is an interesting site at <a href="http://www.flat-speaker.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.flat-speaker.co.uk</a> which has plenty of resources.

    If you go down that route please let me know the results.

    Regards

    Ian
     
  3. gwbailey

    gwbailey
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    I've got the same problem too guys!

    I just wish HCC would look into this in their mag, even more so now eveything is going 6.1/7.1!

    Like us, not every one has got the room for the ideal speaker placement.

    I did mention this to Spectre and HCC but I got no reply!

    Spectre?
     
  4. riddler

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    Firstly badger,<br /> I have a pair of mission m7ds bipoles on my back wall.My sofa is too pushed against the back wall.In this position these speakers sound great.<br />I used to use kef q15's on stands at the side of the listening position, but the missions how i have them now sound ALOT better for surround.<br />Just put them about 1.5m up and im sure you will be happy with the sound.

    Ian j,<br /> Have you considered using the mission m7 center for a rear center? its only 12cm deep (about the same as the ds rears).<br />Personaly i dont think its meaty enough to use as a true center speaker but think it will be perfect for this role.<br />They cost about £80 if you look around.<br />As good as the flat pannel speakers have gotten , they are still gonna sound crap compared to the mission m7 center.

    Just my 2 pennys worth
     
  5. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Riddler,

    Thanks for your advice which is something that I had not thought about and will now investigate. I am sure that this must be a fairly common problem as not everyone lives in the type of house featured every month in the mag.

    Regards

    Ian
     
  6. gwbailey

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    Spectre?
     
  7. Markster

    Markster
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    I am pleased to see there are others who does not live in a perfectly square room with ideal speaker placement opportunities. I was beginnning to think it was just me!!
     
  8. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Two compromises I could think of (and not kidding either):

    1. On the sides (one above the door)

    2. On the ceilling
     
  9. Guest

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    My understanding is that side positioning is *only* essential for DI-poles as you need to sit in the "null" space (in order only to hear the reflected sound).

    BI-poles are a totally different animal - they have some of the directionality of monopole speakers (which you'd place high up on the back wall, right?), but are also reliant on reflections from the ceiling and back/side wall to produce the "wraparound" effect (I must sound like a reviewer, or have I just read too many AV mags <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> )

    For what it's worth, I am also planning to buy some Mission 77DS's which I will be placing high up on my back wall close to my sofa...
     
  10. Tim Ingman

    Tim Ingman
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    Can I resurrect this one? Anybody got any results to tell? I too live in a small flat with sofa against rear wall and want to go "6.1/7.1". I use Royd Sorcerers all round (with Royd centre) but am thinking of using bi-pole m7ds's for rear. Any comments. Take a look at http://www.hometheatermag.com/fullarchives.cgi?25
     
  11. samwiley

    samwiley
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    I have been living with my completed system for a month or so now and am still agonising about the positioning of my 77ds's.

    I have the seating along the back wall but due to the limitations of the room (converted roof space) the speakers are just above ear height, on the back wall also.

    The problem is that I find the effects coming from the rear speakers sound rather detached from the action in the front (about 4m away).

    I'm lucky in that the room is square, so does anybody think that I would be better positioning the 77ds's on the side walls rather than the rear?

    Sam
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Sam,

    Reiner mentioned a couple of possible solutions earlier in this thread. Either on the side wall (as mine are) or on the ceiling. The best thing is to try all possibilities and see what suits you best.

    Rears on the back wall so close to your ears will sound odd and are not to be recommended.

    Regards

    Ian
     
  13. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi All,

    I had a big problem with this as well and my solution seems to work really well.

    I have also have the sofa against the rear wall.

    I use bipoles for the sides 2-3 feet above ear height inline.

    I use another pair of identical bipoles on window sills immediately behind me firing UP. This works really well. No direct distracting sound but a nice, evenly toned wrap-around sound-stage. I tried the "rear" bipoles firing down from the ceiling - not quite as successful but more wife friendly.

    I also tried standard-direct radiating speakers firing down from the same positions - again, not as good, more localised and more obviously coming from above instead of behind.

    I found bipoles gave a good compromise between the speaker-disappearance act of dipoles and discrete channels for DD/DTS 6.1/7.1 or multi-channel music.

    Good luck.

    Gary
     
  14. Tim Ingman

    Tim Ingman
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    Thanks all for the info. I have been thinking of various ideas, including using a Mission FS-2 set-up just for the sides and rears and retaining my Royds for the front. I was quite impressed with the "wrap-around-sound" effect at a demo at the Bristol Show in Feb this year. Any comments on this? As "gwbailey" said earlier in this string, this topic should be covered by one of the mags - c'mon HCC! ?
     
  15. samwiley

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    Ian

    Thanks, I'll try re-positioning the rear over the weekend and report my findings next week.

    Sam
     
  16. bilbo699

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    I too have the Mission 7ds and mine are positioned on my rear wall facing foward and they are mounted at ceiling height (i've turned them upside down so will direct down).

    Because these speakers are bipoles, they have a very diffuse sound, so localisation should not be an issue with placing them like this.

    I believe that if you have your amp set up correctly you can get a fantasic sound from these little beasties!!

    I would suggest that you get a tape measure and start measuring accurately your distance from all speakers to your listening position. Then enter your speaker delay for each speaker into your amp - most amps allow you to input distance directly in feet or metres which will then automatically set required delay.

    The next thing to do is GET A SPL METER, and a noise source such as DVD Platinum. Using the SPL meter accurately set the output of all your speakers to match - it is no good relying on your ear - your ear is highly inaccurate.

    After doing this, I challenge you to come back and say that their is no improvement. I believe you will notice a vast improvements with sound effects placed exactly where they should be.

    Hope this is useful to all.
     

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