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Big Question

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by G1OSE, Feb 15, 2003.

  1. G1OSE

    G1OSE
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    hi
    ok im stuck i came to these forums as a new guy thinking i new a fair bit but after reading up on here i have learnt a lot more...anyway
    i am on a buget and need an av reciever and a set of speakers to match
    i was looking at the denon 1803 yam 630 and sony 333 or 1080 maybe with b&w 300 surrounds or 600 sets any ideas?
    i need to connect
    to my tv
    dvd, ps2, vid players and pc and cable
    to my receiver
    cd multiplayer, minidisc, dvd, ps2, vid, computer, cable,,--- tv???? (do i need to connect it back?)
    im looking at running all the visual parts (dvd vid pc ps2) through the receiver and then one to the tv so i think video switching is needed???
    it needs to have a fm tuner built in and for future proofing multiroom stereo and 6.1 or 7.1 with all the new stuff like pl2 and the rest
    i no this is long winded but can you advise me on what bits to get and how to set it all up
    btw i have heard the b&w 600 v impresive and the denon amp also impresive but can anyone point me in better directions
    it mainly for music in a room about 7m by 3.5m
    please help!
    cheers
     
  2. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Okay ... first things first ... how much do you have to spend and what do you need to get into your budget?

    Okay ... if you need multiroom then none of the amps meantioned (except possibly the Sony) have proper multiroom facilities - the Yamaha has A-B speaker switch but not sure if that's going to be sufficient. I consider multi-room to be facility to listen to an alternate source in the second room through an additional amp / set of speakers.

    As you say music is important to you ... I would discount the Denon 1803 immediately as there are no pre-out connections on it. The rest listed do have pre-outs so at a later time you could add an integrated (stereo) amp, put your music sources directly into this and have better stereo.

    So amps to consider would be Denon 2803 (around £450 probably), Yamaha RX-V630 (£380) - not the cheeper AX-V630 as it doesn't have a tuner, Sony STR-DB1080 (£380) or Sony STR-VA333ES (£680) or to add to your list also consider the Marantz SR5300 (£360) and NAD T752 (£550) - both of the last two will probably be better for music than others at their respected prices.

    All of the amps meantioned should have enough inputs ... and have video switching if you wish to use that.

    The B&W 600 series speakers are very good right accross the range - except for the 602.5 (baby floorstanders) - and from what I've read the 303 / 309 range is also good value for money. Personally I'd try to stretch my budget to 601s3 (£250) front / LCR60 (£200) centre / 600s3 (£200) rears as a good package and suitable for the room size you meantioned ... add a pair of stands for the front (£70) and either another pair of stands or hand the 600s off the wall for the rear. Add a Paradigm PS1000 (£230) to it (if you can track one down at Richer Sounds) which is very good for the price - or stretch to a Velodyne / REL / MJ Accoustic for a bit more.


    Victoria
     
  3. G1OSE

    G1OSE
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    wow thanks for the help
    ok when i mentioned the multiroom part i meant that had a set of outputs like the a/b part to run some more speakers in another room from the same amp so not sure if that makes a difference

    i thought the denon 1803 did have one set of pre-outs but must be mistaken (btw how much is a integrated (stereo) amp) and does it do vid switching
    forthe amp i was looking to spend sub £400 if poss leaving an easier upgrade path (ie if i buy a better receiver now less chance of upgrading later plus being a student dont have that much money!!)

    for the speakers i really wanted floorstanders for the front so was looking at the 603's s3 been told they will be better in music and dont need stands
    the reason i liked the 300 set is they have the floorstanders and a decent sub all in the package and i no the 600 set will be better but how different can they be???
    also with the 600's with wall mounting you are blocking the port on the back so how would these be in such conditions?

    btw i dont have a set budget as such but the bits i mentioned are a kinda guide as to the amount so AVR= roughly £300- £400 speaker package £0- £1000 i guess but will vary if needed by persuasion
    how good are marantz with the surround sound as this is also an issue even though more music?

    sorry for the long posts but i need answers and you guys are better than anyone for that!!!
     
  4. chino

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    I'd say that if your budget for speakers is £1000, you'll have to give the 603's a miss as they're £600 for the pair. They are very good speakers though and would be great for stereo music (although I preferred the Monitor Audio S6's). I know you said you wanted floorstanders, but maybe think of getting some 602's with stands for your front speakers if you want good music performance.

    Haven't heard the 300 series as a surround setup up, although my friend has some 303's and IMHO the 600 series is far superior, and proabably worth the extra.

    How much is an integrated amp? would probably depend on which speakers you go for at the front, but I'd say £300-£600 would be a rough estimate.

    Don't know if that's any help to you :confused:, just a couple of opinions.

    Chino

    (Edit - Actually I think you can get a HC setup from B&W for about £950 which includes the 603's)
     
  5. Rob KSA

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    I'm a newbie too but after reading a lot from here and advise from friends I bought for myself the following:

    Receiver: Pioneer vsx d2011 (the same as the USA elite 45tx).
    Fronts: B&W 602/S3
    Center: B&W LCR600
    rears: B&W 601/S3

    I intended to buy the B&W sub as well but is not available in Bahrain where I bought mine (I work in Saudi Arabia). So I ended buying the Yamaha sub. I initially intended to buy the DM 303 for my sorround but ended buying the 601/S3. The 601/S3 price difference with the 600/S3 is almost "nil" so I went for the 601/S3. Of course the 603/S3 is a great floorstander but is beyong my budget. The 602/S3 sounds better than the 602.5/S3 floorstanders.

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. jont

    jont
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    there's an Arcam AVR200 f/s in the classifieds ... little over your amp budget but you might be able to spend less on your desired speakers in the classifieds (shortly ;-) )

    Jon
     
  7. G1OSE

    G1OSE
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    ok ill look cheers

    with video switching (bit unsure on this part) do you connect all the videos sources with like a scart to s-vid and phono then connect all to receiver and then just run one from the receiver to the tv and switch between then???????
    but for tv sound do i need to connect from an output for the tv into the amp ???

    i really dont no what to do for the speaker side of things so does anyone think i should spend the extra on the 601 s3 and 603 rather than the 600 and 602 set up and can i get a decent enough sub for this for sub £200 or am i dreaming???

    BTW sounddog you got any more answers to my previous Q's if poss
     
  8. sounddog

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    Your description of video switching sounds about right ... the only problem is that your DVD player wants an RGB connection for best quality ... so always connect that direct to SCART1 on your TV. Your PS2 and PC probably can run on S-Video, but the VCR will only be Composite video unless you've got an S-VHS player. You can get a small passive adaptor to run the VCR into S-Video. The cable will probably either be Composite only or RGB and this needs either connecting directly to the TV on another RGB capable Scart (which most TVs only have one of - used by the DVD player) or could be converted to S-Video with a John Sims or similar converter - but that will cost around £90. So as you see, it's difficult to get all bases covered easily / cheeply with video switching. Most AV amps should be capable of switching S-Video and composite, and will probably cope with 4 devices plus have a DVD connection. You do also need to connect an output from the TV into the Amp to get sound from the telly.

    For a decent sub ... you're really talking about more like £325 as a minimum (Velodyne CHT10) or you could just about cope with a Paradigm PS1000 which Richer Sounds may have for £230. Anything lower than this will be (almost) a complete waste of time.

    Personally, I'd go for B&W 602 plus a pair of stand for the fronts (£300 + £75), an LCR60 for centre (£200) and 601 for rears (£250) ... that will take you to £825 plus stands for rears and cables. Then you need the sub as meantioned above. If you want B&W 600 series, but this is too much, consider dropping the 601 down to 600 for the rear or even getting something cheap from Richer Sounds as the rears (they have KEF Cresta 1 for £40 at the moment)

    If you've got your heart set on floorstanders, I think you need to think about speakers other than the B&W 600 series. As I think you've meantioned, there is the B&W 309/LCR3/303 package, and others to look at would be the Accoustic Energy Aegis Evo 3/Centre/1; Mission M73/M7c/M71; KEF Cresta 30/20c/10 and Wharfedale Diamond 8.3/8.c/8.1. All these will be considerably less than the B&W (sorry don't have exact prices) but won't disgrace a £350 AV amp ... though if later you move up to a higher class amp (Denon 3803 / Pioneer 2011 class) then you will have to consider changing your speakers to get the best - where as the B&W 600 series would suit a higher class amp. (BTW ... I don't recomend any of these packages over any other ... but have read good reviews of all of them)

    As far as I know, the only pre-out on the Denon 1803 is for the subwoofer - Ditton15 has one if you want to check but I think he's planning on replacing it because of the lack of pre-outs.

    As for an integrated amp, good ones start at around £200 for the NAD 320BEE, and keep going upwards in price.

    Victoria
     
  9. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Forgot to say, RE floorstanding speakers that at the price bracket of the B&W 309, KEF Cresta 3, Misson M73, etc ... only the Acoustic Energy Evo 3 is anything more than a stand-mount speaker with an extra wooden box attached to the bottom of it ... to all intents and purposes they are just stand mounts with permanently attached stands.

    Victoria
     
  10. G1OSE

    G1OSE
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    wow again thanks for all that info its a great help
    sorry dont understand this part. the connections on the back are scart and rf arial its a fairly cheap sharp one just for occasional use so can i not use a scart to s-vid cable into the amp like the others then just run a dvd to the tv?

    for now i may look for Paradigm PS1000 as my sub and save the rest for a bigger room but may also take your advise and get some cheaper rear speakers for now and upgrade later so i can have the 600 series for a bit longer as i upgrade the receiver
    what are these like for the price?

    i think ill look at a different receiver then maybe sony although a lot of people dont really like them for the money or even that marantz BTW i have been told that denon and marantz are part of the same people is taht true?

    thanks againg for you time and help it is much appreciated!!!:clap: :smashin:
     
  11. sounddog

    sounddog
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    A quick lesson in video standards and SCART connectors may be useful for you here ...

    Video standard connections can come in one of 4 flavours (maybe more but domesically there's 4 that I can think of) and these are - in approximare order of quality, worst first - composite video, s-video, RGB and component video. Now a SCART cable can carry the first three of these. However not every device will be capable of producing the right signals for all of these.

    A standard VCR will only produce composite video, and if you want to be able to switch this through your amp, and only have 1 cable from the amp to the TV, you need to be able to convert this to S-Video, or use the lowest common denominator (i.e. composite) for all of your connections. Now you don't want to do the latter because composite video is significantly worse than S-Video and RGB.

    With the size of room you have, and considering the size of your budget, you may want to consider buying just 601s for the front, along with a LCR600 and budget speakers for the rear. Doing this you won't have wasted much when later you want to move the 601s to the rear and replace them with 603s on the front. Buying the bigger LCR600 now will also suit the 603s when you get them later.

    The KEF Cresta 1's were rated highly when they came out for £100 ... and now they are avaliable for £40 are a positive bargain.

    The Sony STR-DB1080 amp is getting good reviews right now both in the press and on here.

    Victoria
     
  12. sinister_stu

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    I'd go for the B&W 600 series surround pack you can get for about £950. Think it has 603's and the 601's, not sure which center speaker. I wouldn't bother with the missions or the Kef Q range.
     
  13. G1OSE

    G1OSE
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    ok then points taken and yet again more research needed before the big buy
    thanks for all the help it is really needed
     
  14. ditton15

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    Sounddog: "As far as I know, the only pre-out on the Denon 1803 is for the subwoofer - Ditton15 has one if you want to check but I think he's planning on replacing it because of the lack of pre-outs."

    As indicated below, its the 1602, but Victoria is right nevertheless. GaryG gave me a lash-up solution to lack of pre-outs with is OK as a temporaty fix, but if you plan to get an integrated stereo then give the 1803 (and my 1602, :( ) a miss ).

    I hope to have received and set-up a s/h 2802 by this time next week, and would then be passing the 1602 on, perhaps to someone locally but would be open to offers.

    ditton
     
  15. sounddog

    sounddog
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    I guess you might get a 600series package for £1000 with 603 front but only if you're going for LCR60 and 600 rears ... not very balanced certainly not the 603s with the LCR60. I think the £950 package is the 300 series (309/LCR3/303/ASW300).

    Anyway ... I'll restate that in the small room thats being talked about ... I'd look at 601 fronts, plus a decent sub, LCR60 or LCR600 if planned to upgrade to 603 with larger room later and then either 600 for the rear, or 1 (or 2) pairs of KEF Cresta 1s or similar (avaliable for £40 from RS) to complete the set. This will cost around £1000 - allowing £350 for a sub plus some for stands. The Crestas can later be disposed of without worrying too much due to their low initial cost (could be used in a second room) the 601s moved to be rears and 603s bought for the front as room size and money allows.

    Victoria
     
  16. G1OSE

    G1OSE
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    excellent i think ill go with that set up then but what do you recon on the new velodyne vx10 i think that uncle eric has got pics of for the sub i like it but will it work with this set up
    also as i have been offered a good deal on the sony 1080 i think i may be edging towards that unless anyone can convince me not to
    the way i see it is that people say costs more for less but if i get it for less surely its a good deal unless it is actually a bad receiver?

    thanks again all for the help!!!:smashin:
     

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