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Big problem with Sanyo Z1 Dropping Frames?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Jim v2.0, Aug 1, 2003.

  1. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    Both myself and a colleauge recently found that passing a signal to the Z1 via the VGA port resulted in it dropping frames. We noticed this when we upgraded our BriteView video processor to the new firmware which seems to have made the problem more apparant. The IScan Ultra was also tested and this was even worse! This is a problem with the Z1 VGA port, not the video processor. It seems the VGA input is pants at handling pans.

    This problem is most noticable on wide pans, where the picture appears to stutter. I've foud the picture unwatchable because of this.

    has anyone else had this problem?
     
  2. azzo

    azzo
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    I have been discussing this on the Progressivs scan forums.
    I have the same problem with my VGA port on AE100 + ISCAN.
    Somebody said they had the same problem with the Z1 (I think)
    and Gordon says this problem is common.
    You can use the component in to get around this.
    I have and have had no problems after moving to a VGA to component lead.
    It give similar quality and gives me a larger picture. i.e. I get no black window frame as the pj tries to scale it better.

    Azzo.
     
  3. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    What happens if you playback NTSC at 60hz?

    If it does it on pans, it may be the pj frequency is the same as the source - the Z1 panel may ned 60hz, so anything else will look juddery on pans.

    This happens whjen playing NTSC at 50hz and PAL at 60hz.

    Gary.
     
  4. azzo

    azzo
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    I still got this problem when playing GC in 60Hz mode.
    Not been able to try NTSC.
    If its the same problem then changing the cable should fix it.
    It looks like VGA ports are pants.
    Azzo
     
  5. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    I've been playing NTSC at 60Hz. I find the component input a lot softer and lower in contrast, which is why I use the VGA port. Also, on the new chipset on the BriteView, my component doesn't work at all with PAL disks. The screen gets squashed to 2/3 it's proper width and sits on the left hand site of the screen. Sometimes, the picture drops the red component as well! I thing this is more to do with the briteview though.
     
  6. Daniel Booker

    Daniel Booker
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    USE THE COMPONENT INPUT! THEN ITS FINE!
     
  7. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    Whoa, no need to shout! I could use the component input but:-

    1. It's not nearly as good as the RGB input on the Z1 in terms of sharpness etc.
    2. A lot of people use their PCs to drive their Z1s so this could be an important issue for them.
    3. Changing to use the component input doesn't change that fact that there may be a problem with RGB. This thread is intended to discuss that problem.
     
  8. Underscore

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    I'm currently in discussions with Sanyo about this issue. Currently my query has been passed on to their development/maintenance department in Japan but I have yet to get anything out of them. I am continuing to hassle them about this. If others are having these sorts of problems with the RGB input, perhaps they could also contact Sanyo UK technical support so they realise that this is a real problem for more than one user. Sanyo will try to get you to contact your dealer rather than put you through but, if you insist that it appears to be a software bug and not a problem with you specific PJ, I found that you could get put through. If you then get a name, you can be put straight through next time.

    _
     
  9. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    I'm already in contact with Sanyo technical support. Ther've asked for more details and do seem 'interested' in the problem.
     
  10. renardi

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    Is this dropping frames thing also an issue when the Z1 is fed by a HTPC?

    Does the X1 also has this problem?


    Christophe.
     
  11. JUS

    JUS
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    Not sure about X1. I know this has been tested on a DLP which didn't have a problem at all. The same signal passed to the Z1 caused the prob.

    I haven't tested using a HTPC...Underscore has a load of model numbers for kit I don't recognise so maybe he has a HTPC. I think as the signal to the DLP worked and doesn't to the Z1 I think it's a problem with the Z1 rather than the source.

    I'm happy to be proved wrong :)
     
  12. renardi

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  13. Kramer

    Kramer
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    I had no problem with a Z1 fed from a HCPC :confused:

    1:1 mapping - everything was A-OK.
     
  14. JUS

    JUS
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    Kramer,

    Thats interesting. Do you have LOTR? If so, could you check the scene I'm talking about.


    Wonder if it's the 1:1 mapping that does it. Probably simpler for the proj to cope with...less processing.

    Jus.
     
  15. Underscore

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    Indeed I do. Currently I'm running it at 60Hz, which gives a judder akin to 3:2 pulldown. Using 50Hz output gives something similar but not so consistent - it seems to randomly drop and duplicate frames so the judder is far more noticable and even more annoying. The impression I get is that, for non-60Hz signals, the Z1 converts to 60Hz using its internal clock, and the frequency offset between this and the input signal clock results in beating - and, hence, this problem.

    Since there is no problem with 50Hz signals on the video connectors (I've used both S-video and component in my pre-HTPC days) I don't know why the VGA input should give this problem. Hopefully Sanyo can get to the bottom of it and issue a fix so that we're all happy.

    [Edit: And I am running 1:1 mapping]
    _
     
  16. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    What happens if you run at 75hz for PAL and 72hz for NTSC?

    It's what I used for my old Davis, as they both equate to 3:1 for each system. Mind you, my Davis would match the frequency and wasn't fixed at 60hz.

    Just an idea.

    Gary.
     
  17. Underscore

    Underscore
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    IIRC, the Z1 won't support 75Hz at 1:1 mapping.

    _
     
  18. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    The new BriteView chipset has an additional 75Hz mode. When using this, the problem is 10x worse than with the 60Hz mode. From what I can remember, the Z1 will support up to 100Hz on the VGA port (but maybe not in 1:1 mode as mentioned)
     
  19. JUS

    JUS
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    Has anyone had any response from Sanyo yet?
     
  20. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    Nope
     
  21. Underscore

    Underscore
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    Me neither
     
  22. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    I emailed the support people yesterday for an update. they said "They have one of these products in the workshop and are currently investigating the issue".

    We'll have to wait and see how they get on.
     
  23. Jim v2.0

    Jim v2.0
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    Still no response from Sany, I've sent several emails now but it seems that the lady in question can't be arsed to reply.

    On a more positive note, I tried switching my BriteView from 1024x768 to 800x600 at 60Hz. The frame dropping seems to disapear at this resolution.
     

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