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Big city hell

Lee

Moderator
Birmingham is fast becoming, if it isn't already, hell on earth.

12 stabbings in one week, nearly 100 shootings from January to September last year and loads this year including a drive by on a pizza shop the other day. Violent car jackings are the norm, there was one today where an off duty policeman was stabbed. Gangs on bikes are terrorising people.

Walking the streets is a no no. Certain areas are a no go (yes, them news reporters from the USA a few years were right).

It's getting worse year after year and I can't see it ever ending.

So what are the reasons and is there a solution? I can't see more police making a difference as these people seem to have no care for others.
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
Corporal and capital punishment is the way forward. Plus workhouses and hard labour prisons. Scare people into obeying the law.
 

Flashy

Well-known Member
There are a lot less police and the criminals know it, reversing that would be a big step.
It would be an expensive step. More police could easily be funded but it it means people paying more taxes, and people don’t like that.

Frankly, I wouldn’t mind paying a few more quid each year for a better health service, more police, better civic amenities, the list goes on. But it appears I’m in the minority.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Public sector borrowing is still dropping and some things have been done e.g. over 600 new ambulances but this is a long term solution to the effects of the 2008 banking collapse and, I suspect, a lax approach to borrowing.
 

stiv674

Well-known Member
It would be an expensive step. More police could easily be funded but it it means people paying more taxes, and people don’t like that.

Frankly, I wouldn’t mind paying a few more quid each year for a better health service, more police, better civic amenities, the list goes on. But it appears I’m in the minority.
I think most would back a rise in income tax but only if it actually went to the right sectors, NHS and policing etc...
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
I think most would back a rise in income tax but only if it actually went to the right sectors, NHS and policing etc...
I am not confident that a tax increase will solve the problem. In fact I’m pretty confident that the result would be higher taxation and no noticable change to the services.

The NHS in its current state is a giant sponge that will suck up as much money as you could throw at it without any noticable change.

There have already been tax increases to address the NHS, the upper rate NI has gone from 0% to 1% to 1.5% to 2% and it hasn’t made any noticeable difference.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

stiv674

Well-known Member
I maybe should have added that it would be assuming it actually made a difference, pie in the sky perhaps.
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
There is one factor that hasn't been mentioned - care for the ageing population which continues to increase.
 

shodan

Distinguished Member
Build more prisons, courts to look to the upper levels of sentencing guidelines, three strike prison sentences, courts to have stronger and better powers for deportations.

I believe this all sounds right and would be effective, except it doesn't work as a deterrent as proven in the US.
 

BB3Lions

Distinguished Member
Life means life will get rid of many. 3 counts your in maximu....... Been here before haven't we? Don't they all need a cuddle & counselling/better education? Or is that what we have now? A society of snowflakes & bubble wrapped gangsters.
 

leamspaceman

Distinguished Member
Just out of interest, are there any statistics or is there any evidence that support the draconian measures some have mentioned actually work?

Where there is a death penalty, the ultimate deterrent, it doesn't appear to actually be a deterrent?
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Where there is a death penalty, the ultimate deterrent, it doesn't appear to actually be a deterrent?
I don’t think the death penalty works, unless we go back to the times where you are found guilty and hung the following morning.

The death penalty has too much governance and opposition and even if it is enforced you then need a death row period (10 years) to allow for new evidence etc. So even if it exists, like in the USA, I think it is seen as so unlikely or something that it so distant in the future that criminals don’t think of it as a likely outcome and therefore, as a deterent not very effective.

However, I think that there is something that could be done. For example, it is too easy to be let off with a caution or get a suspended sentence for lessor crimes - I think this is because it costs too much (time and money) to process and there is not enough prison space. I don’t think prison is the answer anyway because they cost money to build and run. Instead I think the procedures should be simplified, the use of ‘in all probability’ increased, and community service used - cleaning up litter, grafitti, decorating etc.

I also think that repeating crimes should escalate the sentence. So the first public order or minor theft might mean a few weeks community service but the Nth one could mean years in prison.

The time between arrest and sentencing needs to be quick.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

davidjohnson

Distinguished Member
I don't know how they did it, but look at the difference between New York City in the 70's and 80's and how it is now.
 

Cobb

Distinguished Member
I live 10mins away from the pizza shop shooting last week. Have lived in Birmingham my entire life - it has become a toilet.

I rarely venture into the city centre itself, once a year maybe. I was on jury service at crown court for 2 weeks a couple of months ago and the walk from the courts to the train station was an eye opener, the amount of homeless zombie drug addicts and gangs was depressing, as was the sheer amount of cases that took place during my 2 weeks summons.
 

mij

Well-known Member
It seems to me that things are being deliberately allowed to get worse, assuming the people in charge are not idiots there must be an ulterior motive, maybe softening us up for the privatisation of our security?

I do know that when I was young and living in real poverty that I didn't give a fudge about the law or the consequences or about the opinions of society, I never felt a part of society, so why would I. It wasn't until I started to earn decent money and get things that my thinking changed, I later married, had kid's and am now a fully paid up member of society. I now see a lot more people just like what I was who need a way out of it, I am not sure many of them have one.

The older I get, the more I realise that most of the problems we all face as a society stem from poverty, and poverty with no hope causes even bigger problems for all of us eventually...Even with their large flat screen TV's, fag's & booze it is poverty, and most problems start there.
 

krish

Distinguished Member
discredited
Contrary to popular belief, Giuliani's "zero tolerance" bluster had little to do with it. Instead, it was a combination of strategic policing and harm reduction by the New York Police Department. Police targeted open-air drug markets, and went after guns, while leaving drug users largely alone.
When former Mayor David Dinkins came into office, he proposed a $1.8 billion plan to "fight fear" in New York and hired 8,000 new officers, the LA Times reported at the time. He also hired an effective new police commissioner, Lee Brown, who supported "community policing," the practice of having cops patrol neighborhoods and get to know people to help solve problems — instead of just answering 911 calls. Crime's hold on the city really started to falter while Dinkins still sat in City Hall from 1990 to 1993. Data from NYC.gov shows the murder rate in New York City peaked in 1990 and dropped 30% by 1994.

To be fair, Giuliani also hired 3,660 new officers once he came into office, On The Issues found.
 

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