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Bi-wired speakers with Denon 2802

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Triponi, Apr 29, 2002.

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  1. Triponi

    Triponi
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    Hi all,

    I just bought a Denon 2802 over the weekend to go with my Eltax Cinemaxx (I spent all weekend playing with it -- great!). The first stupid question I have is:

    The main floor standers are bi-wired and I was wondering how to configure the Denon for this. The Denon has two speaker terminals A and B and I have connected A left and B left to the left speaker, and A right and B right to the right speaker. What I want to know now is how do I direct more bass to the B's and more treeble to the A's? Or is this not necessary and I have missed the point of bi-wiring?

    Kind regards,

    Triponi.
     
  2. Guest

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    Where is the best price for this Amp
     
  3. Guest

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    I have the Denon 2802 bi-wired to a pair of KEF Q1s, but I use just ONE set of terminals for this, i.e. just the B terminals. The A terminals are connected soley to my front surround package speakers (Mission FS2/AV) and have no connection to the KEFs, whereas it is the B terminals that are connected to the KEFs, as shown in the speaker instructions (with both -ve speaker cables from the left KEF speaker going to just the one -ve left B terminal on the Denon, and so on). What you have done seems more like BI-AMPING than bi-wiring.

    With regards price, I bought mine from Hi-fi junkies for £484, price matched with unbeatable.co.uk
     
  4. Guest

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    With regards to the point of bi-wiring and bi-amping, here's what WHAT HI-FI have to say:

    Biamping
    "Each drive unit of a speaker is driven by a separate amp channel, so a pair of two-way speakers needs two stereo amps, and two runs of cable to each speaker."

    Biwiring
    "Some of the benefits of biamping but at a lower cost. You need speakers with two sets of inputs and a split crossover, then send twin runs of cable from amp to each speaker."
     
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  6. Reiner

    Reiner
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    You can bi-wire from one speaker terminal (e.g. the "A" terminal) only.
    If you have difficulties squezzing the wires into one terminal use the "B" terminal, too, but ensure it's a "B" terminal and not a Zone 2 output (your comment regarding the bass/treble settings let me suspect this).

    What I want to know now is how do I direct more bass to the B's and more treeble to the A's? Or is this not necessary and I have missed the point of bi-wiring?

    I think you do. ;) Well, partially at least.


    Don't forget to remove the metal link at the speaker terminals, too.

    If bi-wiring makes a difference or not I will leave for you to judge.
     
  7. Triponi

    Triponi
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    Thanks for those replies,
     
  8. Bonesy

    Bonesy
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    I have a 2802,
    I am worried that you have taken the wrong approach to cabling.

    bi-wiring theoretically gives you cleaner treble and bass, by splitting the signals at the wiring at the amp end, and avoiding reflections, etc (can't remember why exactly, but just consider it a bit better.)

    First off, are the eltax capable for biwire/bi-amping? they should have four terminals on each speaker, if they can.

    To wire for biwire, you need biwire - two pair speaker cable, or two runs of speaker cable for each speaker.
    For each speaker, at the amp end two wires are connected to positive, two to negative. At the speaker end, connect one of each of the positive two wires to each of the positive speaker terminals.
    Same for the negatives. Remove the cross-overs plates from the speakers.

    SO, you should have a single wire going into each terminal on the back of the two speakers, but two wires going into each of the terminal pair on the 2802.

    wow, that is the worst explanation of bi-wiring I have ever read!

    Most importantly,

    what you appear to have done is connect the speakers to both zone a and zone b outputs. This really isn't good, I'm not sure what would be the damage done, but it certainly isn't what the second terminal pair are for.
     
  9. Triponi

    Triponi
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    With regard to price I bought them in Germany for 740 Euro's (£458).

    As far as my setup is concerned, it definitely looks like bi-amping. Can I setup the Denon to perform this function? Perhaps by setting the B's to 'large' and the A's to 'small'?

    As far as bi-wiring is concerned, I can not really see the difference between having the two runs of cable connected to the same binding post at the Amp, or having them connected together at the speaker end with a metal rod. Actually it's just struck me that it might be the difference between having the tweeter and sub wired in parrallel rather the series. Can someone confirm...

    Triponi.
     
  10. Jase

    Jase
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    You should be able to wire the tweeters to Speaker A and the woofers to Speaker B. You then switch on both A&B speaker outputs.

    This was the case for my Yamaha 795A (cant try it on my Denon at doesnt have A/B fronts only A/B surrounds).

    You´ll need two runs of cable to each speaker (provided it has the 2 sets of terminals) and then connect to the relevant terminals on the amp.

    Like this:

    http://www.home-cinema-guide.co.uk/biwire5.htm

    cheers
     
  11. Bonesy

    Bonesy
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    Bi-amping gives decent results, and requires two amps.

    Left channel of a two channel amp drives the tweeter in the left speaker, right channel drives the tweeter in the right speaker,

    left channel of another two channel amp drives the bass driver in the left speaker, right channel drives the bass driver in the right speaker.

    as each channel of amplification is only connected to a tweeter or bass driver, it has a simpler load to carry, and therefore provides a cleaner more powerful signal, suffering much less reflection, interference, etc.

    I don't think the denon 2802 on it's own can do bi-amping. although it has 7 amp channels, you don't have four in parallel as required above. I believe the zone a and zone b are seperate terminals for the same 2 amp channels.
    ( if you can get different sources playing out of pair A and pair B terminals simultaneously, then I am wrong. If not, then I might well be right).

    If so, to do bi amping you'd need a seperate 2 channel amp to accompany the 2802, I think denon offer one for their high end kit.
    If you are planning to use it chiefly for AV, you might not hear much benefit. It might be more cost effective to upgrade either the speakers, or move to the more powerful amplification offered by the 3802.
     
  12. Bonesy

    Bonesy
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    mrnab, top link, wished I'd checked it before bothering with my response.
    jase, Do you reckon that the site is right about biwiring using multiroom set-ups? seems highly suspect to me. :confused:
     
  13. Jase

    Jase
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    Bonesy

    Have you got a link to the page??? The sites not loading up so I cant have a look!!!:confused: Having a nightmare with our servers over here.:(
     
  14. Bonesy

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    jase, its your link I am referring to
    http://www.home-cinema-guide.co.uk/biwire5.htm
    this is just new to me, and I didn't know you could do it. Didn't think manufacturers would ensure a properly parallel output to two speaker sets to guarantee identical signals?
     
  15. Jase

    Jase
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    Ah, I though you were referring to another page!!!

    Yamaha having been doing this for ages, in fact any manufacturer that includes A & B speaker outputs. Presumably the manufacturers make sure that the signals going to the two sets of terminals are identical. At some point someone must have decided it would be a good idea to use them both for Bi-Wiring.

    Who & when, I´ve no idea!!
     

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