Bi wire = bi amp?

st170dan

Active Member
Hi, first of all my apologies for starting this thread - there's probably loads of threads on this but what I have read is leaving me with more questions than I started with! I have some Acoustic Solution speakers that I have bi-wired to my Cambridge Audio A5 amp. My question is - if an amp accepts bi-wiring is it bi-amping? Or are the 2 separate? My speakers have 2 medium cones, 1 small cone and one tweeter so I feel bi-amping would be a good thing on these speakers?
 

amcluesent

Well-known Member
if an amp accepts bi-wiring is it bi-amping?

Nope, you need two amps
 

formbypc

Novice Member
The clue is in the words;

As a human, you are a biped. You get around on two legs.
A bi-cycle has two wheels.
Bi-wiring involves two sets of wire.
Bi-amping involves two amps. You only have one.

Search google images for "biamping biwiring" - there's loads of diagrams detailing the difference.
 

st170dan

Active Member
Ah OK, I thought perhaps it was possible to have 2 amps built into one or something. So going on from what I've learnt in one of my previous threads, I'm not getting any advantages from having my system bi-wired atm?
 

Mr Pig

Novice Member
What bi-wiring and bi-amping do have in common is that they are both largely a waste of time! It's a way to get money out of gullible people who confuse quantity with quality.

The same is true of MP3, surround-sound and the X-Factor.
 

peritus

Banned
In all honest you're probably holding back your speakers capabilities in bi-wiring them as well.

You amp isnt the most powerful in the world so it'd be better for you to run a single set of cables to your speakers and just replacing the speaker cable jumper bars for some of the same cable
 

st170dan

Active Member
In all honest you're probably holding back your speakers capabilities in bi-wiring them as well.

You amp isnt the most powerful in the world so it'd be better for you to run a single set of cables to your speakers and just replacing the speaker cable jumper bars for some of the same cable


What do you mean by this?
 

st170dan

Active Member
Starting to get a little bit confused? Why would they put terminals on the back of the amp to bi-wire if bi-wiring it would be disadvantageous to the speakers?
 

peritus

Banned
Some people feel that bi-wiring helps, in 'some' cases it can but in most cases (I've found personally) that it detracts from the sound and holds back the speakers a little

A 2nd pair of terminals is there usually for folks who may want to power another set of speakers elsewhere etc...
 

formbypc

Novice Member
Starting to get a little bit confused? Why would they put terminals on the back of the amp to bi-wire if bi-wiring it would be disadvantageous to the speakers?

The idea of bi-wiring is that you connect both sets of cable to one set of terminals at the amp, and the two sets of terminals at the speaker.

If you're connecting one set of cable to (say) Speaker A and the other to Speaker B terminals, then setting the amp to Speakers A+B, I'm not convinced you're getting the best effect.....
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Woo-hoo!

I've got graphics!

This came up in another thread recently, so I took the time to create some graphics that show the difference between Bi-Wiring and Bi-Amping.

277382d1322302955-bi-wiring-biwire2sm.jpg



276096d1321749426-bi-wiring-biamp1bsm.jpg



In the top photo we see Standard Wiring one amp, one speaker with the Speakers Terminal Jumper Bars (yellow) in place.

Next, Bi-Wiring, one amp, one speaker, but two speakers wires with the Terminal Jumper Bars removed.

The last graphic shows Bi-Amping, where two amps are connected together to allow them both to drive the same speaker, again, especially in this case, the Speaker Terminal Jumper Bars MUST be removed.

In some cases, the extra amps for Bi-Amping can be the unused channels of a Surround Sound amp.

Others are free to copy and use these graphics.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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steveledzep

Active Member
You have Acoustic Solution speakers ! It doesn't matter how you connect them. Single wire, Bi-wire or Bi-amp they'll always sound crap !!! Get some decent speakers and just single wire them and enjoy the improvement !
 

st170dan

Active Member
You have Acoustic Solution speakers ! It doesn't matter how you connect them. Single wire, Bi-wire or Bi-amp they'll always sound crap !!! Get some decent speakers and just single wire them and enjoy the improvement !

Haha, I've had them donkeys years, approximately 12 years. I have to say replacing my hifi speakers is not a priority for me atm and isn't likely to be for some time yet. I have my speakers wired up like the guy in this thread

http://www.avforums.com/forums/hi-f...udio-a5-inconsistent-instructions-manual.html

Only I haven't removed anything from the speaker terminal. What's these jumper bars you keep mentioning?

So should I look to re-wire my set up as per the first pic? I have 8 speaker outputs on my amp (4 +, 4 -) which I had presumed meant I had to bi-wire them ie to the 4 terminals on each speaker. Given that the 2nd pic shows 2 terminals going to 4 terminals and I have 4 terminals am I technically bi-wiring? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to make sure I understand. :smashin: If this is the case, I'm not really sure what the extra terminals on the amp are for - unless they are for connecting a sub woofer when bi-amping?
 

st170dan

Active Member
Some people feel that bi-wiring helps, in 'some' cases it can but in most cases (I've found personally) that it detracts from the sound and holds back the speakers a little

A 2nd pair of terminals is there usually for folks who may want to power another set of speakers elsewhere etc...

Just realised one of my questions was answered here. This would make sense but my amp doesn't have the ability to switch speaker sets. I just have 8 terminals on the back.
 

Mr Pig

Novice Member
Why would they put terminals on the back of the amp to bi-wire if bi-wiring it would be disadvantageous to the speakers?

Because idiot buyers demand it. Back in the eighties a number of respected speaker manufactures started putting extra terminals on the backs of their speakers, despite knowing it was pointless, because dealer feedback told them they were loosing sales because if it.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
A very crude diagram of my wiring

image

I assume, for the speaker shown, you are using the Speaker-A and Speaker-B terminals? That's fine, but it is pointless unless the Jumpers are removed from the speakers, and of course, both Speaker-A and Speaker-B have to both be turned on.

I wouldn't buy wire in order to Bi-Wire, but if I had spare wire laying around, it is worth trying out. Just don't expect much from it.

Steve/bluewizard
 

st170dan

Active Member
What's the jumper you keep mentioning? I've not removed anything so I assume they are still in place. By the sound of it it sounds like I need to rewire these speakers, which I will do when I get some spare time.
 

st170dan

Active Member
Just had a look at my speakers, I want to try leaving them bi-wired but removing this jumper bar to see how it sounded. However I couldn't find anything connecting the terminals. TBH I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for but there was no bar - all 4 terminals were independantly wired to the circuit board. i tried doing some pics but I only have a camera phone and it's rubbish in poor light, had to do them in night mode, hence extra crap quality:

14a71566-6c79-463e-bc57-82395c46ba00.jpg


7b6e8798-b812-48e3-81a8-7e57edd00c23.jpg


I'll be amazed if you can make anything out there!

I could really do with getting this sorted as I'd like these to be wired correctly and performing to the best of their ability - even if they are Acoustic Solutions speakers!!
 

fyonn

Active Member
whoa there, if there's a jumper bar, it'll be on the outside, no need to go opening those fella's up!

the jumper bars just connect the two positives and the two negatives together, thats all.
 

st170dan

Active Member
OK, I opened them up because I couldn't see anything connecting them on the outside. I'll do another pic tonight to show you.
 

fyonn

Active Member
Right, lets think of some examples.

a) a simple 2 way speaker with 1 pair of binding posts. 1 tweeter, 1 woofer. you connect a single pair of cables to the binding posts and behind the panel, each post splits the signal into 2 equal signals, one going to the tweeter, one going to the woofer. the one going to the tweeter goes through filter to remove all the low frequency signals, and the one going to the woofer goes through a filter to remove all the high frequency signals. this bit is called the crossover. then the cables go straight to the driver itself and presto, sound

b) a 2 way speaker with 2 pairs of binding posts. one set for the high (tweeter), one set for the low (woofer). both these pairs of binding posts are connected to crossovers and then the drivers as in the example above, but there is no connection to each other so if you single wire the system then you'll either only get the low frequencies or the high ones depending on which post you connected to. so bi-wireable speakers always come with jumper bars (or really short cables) which connect the high and low positives and the high and low negatives together. this way if you want to single wire them then you'll get a full signal but if you want to biwire them then you should disconnect the jumper as otherwise the biwiring is pointless.

this is what people meant. it sounds like your jumpers have been mislaid or lost. don't worry about it, they're easily replaceable with short runs of speaker cable if you only want to single wire, and if you're biwiring then it doesn't matter.

hope that helps.

david
 

st170dan

Active Member
Thanks, that's helpful. There is definately nothing externally connecting the terminals so I guess they must be removed. I bought these from new but set them up literally when I got them, a good 12 years ago or so. I wanted to try experimenting with the wiring as I have always had them bi-wired but recently learnt on here that I may not be getting the best from them bi-wired. I then learnt about the jumper bar - perhaps I did remove it all those years ago. Each speaker has 2 woofers, 1 smaller woofer and 1 tweeter and my amp accepts bi-wiring, so thought this made sense initially. I guess I'd need to bi-amp ideally.
 
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