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Beware, another newbie

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Brind, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. Brind

    Brind
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    Hello!!

    Basically I want a projector and looking to spend as 'little' over £1000 as possible.
    I want to go DLP, I've read in various places and DLP sounds ideal for many reasons, hoping not to get the rainbow effect I keep reading about, what I've read always comes to the same conclusion, they aren't as bad as they use to be.

    It will be used as a home cinema but I also like the idea of getting a perfect resolution match to my pc which is running in XGA.

    I was looking at the new Toshiba MT200 but looking at others, the Optoma EP739 has more brightness (2000ansi compared to 750ansi), similer contrast (2000:1 compared to 2500:1) it's quieter! the bulb life is up to 5000 hours compared to 3000 hours and most of all, the Optoma EP739 has a native XGA output.

    The Toshiba MT200 is a 16:9 ratio projector whereas the Optoma EP739 is a normal 4:3 ratio projector.

    The question.
    I've seen people mention that for movie watching, 16:9 WVGA is the ideal, why????
    What I'm looking at has the ability to produce a far clearer display and can also project a 16:9 ratio image.
    What is the downsides? the price? loss of data when the 4:3 changes to 16:9?

    Anyone have experience with the Optoma EP739?

    Thanks for any advice and putting up with my rambling. :)
     
  2. KraGorn

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    Hi :hiya:

    I've lost track of XGA, WVGA, VGA-of-the-month :) .. I can't remember what resolutions these acronyms represent.

    You may find this article on ProjectorCentral covering the 4:3 vs 16:9 debate helps clarify the issues involved .. that's issues as in issues, not as in bugs. ;)

    As for suggested projectors, 'cheap' DLPs aren't too plentiful and those that are generally are aimed at the 'presentation' market and make less than ideal home cinema projectors. Paradoxically, brighter ones can be a problem watching movies, they cause back-scatter of light which reflects back on to the screen, killing contrast ratio.

    What sorts of reasons are making you lean towards DLPs, since that's going to limit your choice in the price range you're considering?
     
  3. mi_july

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    Speaking from experience, as it is my first and only pj i am kinda biased here!
    The BenQ PB6200 is excellent, i dont notice rainbows at all, so I'm ok there, but it really is quite nifty, currently im waiting for it to be ceiling mounted but paired with a good dvd player its a gem, and a steal at just under £900!
     
  4. ZippyCat

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    I’ve just laid the plastic out on a Toshiba MT200, which should hopefully arrive within the next few days. At the risk of being banished from the forum, yes this purchase has been made blind without a demo!!! :suicide: I must admit however, this is only due to the non-existence of outlets offering such services (probably due to its recent release). I’m reasonably confident in my decision, as this is similar to the ScreenPlay 4805, which in my opinion offers a fantastic picture for the money. :smashin:

    Although I can induce rainbows, I’ve come to the conclusion that they don’t bother me significantly enough to deter me from going the DLP route. At the back of my mind, I’ve got a whole Rainbow vs LCD traits debate going on. At the risk of being controversial, in my educated opinion :lesson: , LCD has too many negatives over DLP, predominantly concerning reliability and dead pixels. The reliability issue was at the foremost of my decision. This does not mean LCD produces poor pictures, far from it. LCD technology has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years, particularly since the release of the Sanyo Z1 and Panasonic AE100. All in all, for £940 from Nexnix, it’s a steal (I hope!!! :lease: ).

    BTW, don’t forget the Optoma H30, which retails in the sub £1000, it may well be worth a look at. It is soon to be replaced by the H31, which uses the same chip as the MT200 & 4805. Some H30 deals may be on the horizon! Guitarman over on AVS will be getting an early unit in the not to distant future.


    P.S. I will post my opinion on the MT200 once its up and running. :)
     
  5. Brind

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    Thanks for the replies!! :)

    My main reason for deviating from the Toshiba was the brightness, bulb life and the higher resolution capabilty (XGA = 1024 x 768 compared to VGA of 800 x 600).
    The higher resolution as I'm led to believe will make it possible to see text much more clearly as there is 63% more pixels.
    And it's future proof in that HDTV is XGA.. or high res of some discription.
    Brightness seemed to be low on the Toshiba compared to many others, I'm 'assuming' putting it into ECO mode will lower the brightness if it is too bright, but in theory it gives more flexability with how much ambient light you can have in the room

    I'm leaning towards DLP as LCD seems to have more issues like dead pixels, lower contrast and something I read on here yesterday about dust getting into the LCD type projector and it being shown on the screen, whereas DLP are sealed..

    I read the spec on the Optima EP739 and it is a multimedia projector more so than a sole home theatre projector, but it says it can display DVD, games etc.
    One thing I can't find info on is the colour wheel segments and it's speed??

    The Optima pj: http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/Optoma_EP739.htm

    ZippyCat, I had the pleasure of seeing the Toshiba MT200 at the What HI-FI show the other week, this was the reason why I started looking at projectors, I had no intention or needing one before going to the show!! but I love gadgets!!! :laugh: so decided I WANT ONE.
    The Toshiba was certainly impressive (not a connoisseur of projectors though) but compared to the alternative of a Plasma screen, the projector wasn't far behind in picture quality.

    Thanks again for the replies.
     
  6. ZippyCat

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    One thing you may need to be weary of is the colour wheel. Although the projector does have ‘multimedia capabilities’, it does not mean it is suitable for home cinema use. The chances are the Optoma uses a 4 segment 2x colour wheel. This will accentuate the rainbow effect and possibly wash out colours.

    I wouldn’t either get too bogged down by quoted lumen outputs, projectors very rarely produce anything near these figures. Any projector suitable for home cinema use will output enough lumens to produce a beautiful picture, any higher you run the risk of eyestrain and rainbows. 700 – 1200 quoted lumens are ideal. Ambient light will increase the overall black level.

    On the resolution front, I’m willing to bet that the combination of the internal scalar and 854x480 DLP chipset found on the MT200 and 4805, will produce a superior image to that of a data projector and standard functional internal scalar regardless of resolution. :)
     
  7. KraGorn

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    Dead pixels aren't only confined to LCDs, my Sharp Z200E has a single dead pixel out on the left edge, though by definition they're rarer since there's only one panel in an DLP as against the 3 in an LCD machine .. excluding those rich b*st*rds with 3-panel DLPs :p but I guess if you can afford one of those you'd expect a DPC every week for life. :D

    As ZippyCat says, unless you're watching in a dark room .. I do .. then background light of any brightness is going to wash-out the image regardless of projector type and soon the blacks even on a high-contrast DLP will become shades of grey.

    There's no doubt a DLP can produce a better image in terms of CR, colour fidelity etc. but there are many other issues to consider, not least being there's no 1280x720 DLP anywhere near the price of current LCDs and the higher resolution can make up for a shortfall in other areas like mild VB.

    Finally, dust blobs are really not that much of a problem, in the vast majority of cases you'll only know you've got them when the screen is black, as soon as an image appears they'll be impossible to spot.

    BTW, there's one other potential down-side to a DLP .. colour-wheel noise. In addition to the 'whoosh' made by the cooling fans some colour wheels can make a very annoying high/medium-pitched whine. My Sharp as a noticeable whine, though sound-cancelling means that it's only audible from certain seating positions, at other times it's inaudible, but again this is an issue that could tip the scales depending on other factors.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to disuade you from going DLP, just that given your budget I'm not sure that a DLP is necessarily the best option. :)
     
  8. xaser1066

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    Hi, quote from brind ...
    ZippyCat, I had the pleasure of seeing the Toshiba MT200 at the What HI-FI show the other week, this was the reason why I started looking at projectors, I had no intention or needing one before going to the show!! but I love gadgets!!! so decided I WANT ONE.
    The Toshiba was certainly impressive (not a connoisseur of projectors though) but compared to the alternative of a Plasma screen, the projector wasn't far behind in picture quality.

    I too saw the MT200 and would also say that it looked very good, but I would like to add the I think that projectors look much better than plasma displays; plasma displays are c**p compared to even a basic projector (set up correctly).
     
  9. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    I second that ! The colour wheel on the Benq rotates 3x as fast as some competitors, so there's much less of a "rainbow effect". It's a very quiet machine as well. I bought mine after reading a review on an American website, and I've not been disappointed.
     
  10. Brind

    Brind
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    Thanks again for more replies. :)

    I can't get over how frustrating this is! :laugh:

    What would be ideal is to be able to view these projectors, anyone know any places that does this? although not looked before, I'm sure I haven't seen them in the usual places like Currys or Dixons etc..

    I've been on loads of websites now, even those that I can't understand the language of, but I still can't find any info on the colour wheel or speed! :( this is a major downside as I know full well me of all people will spot it if it isn't right! :rolleyes:

    Judging by what the 'instructions' say about this Optima pj, it works well:

    Is there any other way of determining the colour wheel details?
    As in 'Display Technology' 0.7" 12 degree DDR DLP
     
  11. KraGorn

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    There's no way to infer a colour wheel speed from other specs. If you can't find the info on the web then why not call a dealer? Seems to me that ProjectorPoint seem to have a comprehensive list of Optoma's machines and I think someone senior at that dealer is a forum member .. won't quote his nick in-case I'm wrong. :)
     
  12. MikeD

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    Brind be sure to check out the Optoma H30 and Infocus 4805.

    Both are very worthy DLP projectors, intended for HT use and with the fastest colour wheels around in a budget proj at the mo.

    I got my H30 in April and the PQ still blows me away (check out the review by hitting the link at the top of the "DLP and LCD projectors" page).

    Regards, MikeD
     
  13. Diablito

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    I would not recommend to see a movie on the ep739 from my experience with it...
    We currently have one at my job, and connecting the xbox to it i'm very dissapointed by the lack of details in dark pictures! It's impossible to se anything playing, for instance, rallysport challenge 2 and any afternoon/shadowy/night tracks.

    I'm planning to use DVE to calibrate to see if it gets any better, but have already tried a lot of different brightness/contrast/gamma settings without much help...

    When showing powerpoint presentations etc it's very good at that! :thumbsup:
    But have not yet tried to play a movie from the computer, so mayby that will be better?
     
  14. Brind

    Brind
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    Thanks for the replies!! :thumbsup:

    My head is spinning with all the choices and conflicting arguments, without seeing them for my own eyes I think I'll hold fire for a while.

    Thanks for your reply Diablito, that's virtually turned me away from it.

    I still welcome other comments, and I'll appreciate your thoughts on the MT200 ZippyCat.
     
  15. ZippyCat

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    Brind, I’ll be happy to shed some light on the MT200, but please bear in mind the limited time I’ve had it up and running, and the fact I am still waiting for DVE to arrive from Play.com so that I can get it properly calibrated.

    So far I’m really impressed :smashin: , having to continually remind myself of just how little I paid. Colours leap of the screen with virtually no perceivable screen door effect or pixelation (2x screen width viewing distance). It’s an attractive package to mount on your ceiling (photos on the internet don’t do it justice), much better looking than the H30 or SP4805.

    The only slight niggle I have is the scaler, but you must appreciate this has be manufactured for a price point. Occasionally it struggles to de-interlace fast moving objects correctly, whereby a ‘striped like’ appearance can be seen (I’m running an interlaced component signal). These however are infrequent, and you would really need to be on the look out to spot them.

    Rainbows will occasionally appear just like any other 6 segment 4x model, but are viewer dependant (demo time!). ‘Dithering’ is present, but can’t be seen from normal viewing distances.

    Sure you can bet better images from other projectors, but this brings me round to my main point, you will have to pay at least twice as much to get any significant improvement.

    I wouldn’t recommend this projector for rooms with large levels of ambient light, but then I wouldn’t recommend a projector in those circumstances anyway.

    All in all, buy with confidence! :thumbsup:
     

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