Best way for me to get full Bluray playback including TrueHD / DTS-HD?

stuuz

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Hey,

I recently bought an Onkyo HT-S3305 AV receiver and 5.1 speaker system to make a decent HTPC setup in my bedroom.

I have been running normal DVD's from my 360 in dolby digital 5.1 and it sounds awesome, and DVD rips from the computer sound great as well.

When I came to try out the blu-ray drive in my pc for the first time since I got a TV worth watching them on, I found out my graphics card is not capable of sending TrueHD / DTS-HD found on blu-rays through the HDMI cable and in to my receiver.

My spec is:

Intel Core2 Q9550
Asus P5E deluxe
8GB Kingston HyperX
ATi 4870 1GB
Asus SoundMax soundcard (shipped with motherboard)
Sony BDX10S Blu-ray reader.

TV is a Toshiba Regza 720p.

Ive done some research and as far as I can tell, in order to get full HD sound, ie TrueHD / DTS-HD from blurays, you need to bitstream the audio through the HDMI to the receiver, and ATi 4xxx cards are incapable of doing so.

Im using PowerDVD9 / TMT3 to playback blu-rays if that makes a difference.

Anyways if this is right, Im seeing 3 options:

-Buy a dedicated Blu-ray player for ~ £140
-Upgrade sound card to an Asus Xonar HDAV1.23 for ~ £130
-Upgrade graphics card to an ATi 5xxx for ~ £130

So their all roughly the same price, the most simple is probably to get a dedicated player, although I would prefer to be able to play BDrips in MKV files which would still require an output capable of bitstreaming, although im not sure if rips are ever encoded with TrueHD anyways.

If I had to choose between the gfx / sound card upgrade, I would prefer gfx upgrade, as I use the PC to play some pretty intense games also, hense the overkill spec for a standard HTPC, and I was looking at the ATi 5770 which is bitstreaming capable, but apparently its only around the same performance as the 4870, except its DX11 capable, if I was spending money on a GFX card I would want a decent upgrade for gaming, which bumps up the price considerably to get a 58xx series. Any suggestions on a decent upgrade to my 4870 which can bitstream HD audio?

So am I missing anything? Is there another way around this?

Sorry for the long thread but I have a couple of other questions..is it normal for windows to be a little unclear on LCD tv's? Video playback seems fine, but Windows7 doesnt quite look properly sharp, no matter what res I use, (ive tried 1920x1080 and 1280x720 upwards)

And also, will the resolution I actually display windows in, have any effect on how a Blu-ray looks during playback?

And finally, Im not 100% sure on what all the different audio codecs actually are, I know DD5.1 and DTS and SD surround audio found on standard dvd's, and I know TrueHD and DTS-HD are the HD versions found on blu-rays, but I keep reading about PCM and LPCM and I really don't understand what they are?

Anyways I think thats everything, thanks for reading, any help is much appreciated.

Stu.
 
Ive done some research and as far as I can tell, in order to get full HD sound, ie TrueHD / DTS-HD from blurays, you need to bitstream the audio through the HDMI to the receiver, and ATi 4xxx cards are incapable of doing so.

Im using PowerDVD9 / TMT3 to playback blu-rays if that makes a difference.

Yes - however the 4xxx series WILL send 5.1/7.1 PCM over HDMI to your amp, and TMT/PowerDVD will decode True HD and DTS HD tracks to PCM 5.1/7.1 in software.

The only caveat is that they will only do this at 48KHz / 16bit. This is fine for some soundtracks that are 48K/16bit - and is still a HUGE improvement over DD/DTS. However if the original track is 96/192KHz or 20/24bit then you don't get the absolute quality that you would do with HD bitstreaming. However as you already have all the kit why not try it?

It's what I've done for my PC set-ups as my hearing is almost certainly not good enough to really appreciate the difference between 48k and 96/192k at my age (mid-30s) - and I don't think my sound system is good enough to hear the noise floor differences between 16 and 20/24 bit audio. I'm happy with the massive improvement PCM 5.1 at 48k/16bit gives me over DD/DTS.

Anyways if this is right, Im seeing 3 options:

-Buy a dedicated Blu-ray player for ~ £140
-Upgrade sound card to an Asus Xonar HDAV1.23 for ~ £130
-Upgrade graphics card to an ATi 5xxx for ~ £130

Yep - I guess you need a high-end 5xxx card to match your current 4xxx for gaming? For HTPC use a 5450 for <£50 is all you need for decent video and HD audio bitstreaming.

So their all roughly the same price, the most simple is probably to get a dedicated player, although I would prefer to be able to play BDrips in MKV files which would still require an output capable of bitstreaming, although im not sure if rips are ever encoded with TrueHD anyways.

If I had to choose between the gfx / sound card upgrade, I would prefer gfx upgrade, as I use the PC to play some pretty intense games also, hense the overkill spec for a standard HTPC, and I was looking at the ATi 5770 which is bitstreaming capable, but apparently its only around the same performance as the 4870, except its DX11 capable, if I was spending money on a GFX card I would want a decent upgrade for gaming, which bumps up the price considerably to get a 58xx series. Any suggestions on a decent upgrade to my 4870 which can bitstream HD audio?

So am I missing anything? Is there another way around this?

Sorry for the long thread but I have a couple of other questions..is it normal for windows to be a little unclear on LCD tv's? Video playback seems fine, but Windows7 doesnt quite look properly sharp, no matter what res I use, (ive tried 1920x1080 and 1280x720 upwards)

Depends on your TV. If your panel can run in 1:1 / Full Pixel with no overscan then it should look pin-sharp if it is a 1920x1080 panel and you run it at 1920x1080 desktop resolution. If your display is 1366x768 or similar then it can be much trickier to get 1:1 pixel mapping for clear display in Windows - and it can be next to impossible to get this right at 23.976/50/59.94Hz refresh rates.

Check your panel resolution, desktop resolution and overscan settings on both your TV and your graphics drivers.

And also, will the resolution I actually display windows in, have any effect on how a Blu-ray looks during playback?

Yes - your desktop resolution will usually also dictate the resolution that your Blu-rays are played back in.

I have a Sony Bravia 40W4000 which is a 1920x1080 panel, and I have it running with 1:1 pixel mapping. I run my PC at 1920x1080 50Hz for SD and HD TV and UK DVD viewing (and for recent BBC Blu-rays), at 23Hz (aka 23.976Hz) for 1080p Blu-ray viewing, and at 59.94Hz for some 1080i Blu-rays (like older BBC releases)

And finally, Im not 100% sure on what all the different audio codecs actually are, I know DD5.1 and DTS and SD surround audio found on standard dvd's, and I know TrueHD and DTS-HD are the HD versions found on blu-rays, but I keep reading about PCM and LPCM and I really don't understand what they are?

PCM is an uncompressed audio standard - and is what movies original soundtracks are produced in. CD is 44.1KHz/16 bit PCM 2.0 (aka stereo) - as it has no compression.

In theory DVDs and Blu-rays can have PCM audio tracks (and some music DVDs do, and some early Blu-rays did before tools for True HD and DTS HD were fully developed for mastering. The original Casino Royale Blu-ray has a PCM multichannel soundtrack) DD, DTS, True HD and DTS HD are all decoded to PCM (LPCM is the same thing effectively - it just specifies that the PCM is Linear ISTR)

True HD and DTS HD MA are lossless compression (a bit like a zip file) so there is no quality difference between the source PCM audio and the PCM audio decoded from the True HD and DTS HD MA tracks assuming the result is at the same sampling rate and bit depth.

DTS HD HR is a very high quality lossy compression scheme - but still provides excellent quality. DD and DTS are the legacy compression schemes and much more lossy, and the results are a bit more hit and miss. That said DD at 640Kbps and DTS at 1.5Mbps can still deliver very good sounding results. You probably notice the differences more when you can compare the two - but in isolation many are happy with the high-bitrate legacy stuff.

Anyways I think thats everything, thanks for reading, any help is much appreciated.

Stu.
 
Wow thanks for the fast and helpful reply.

The audio formats are starting to make a lot more sense now, when I play blu-rays from my pc, the receiver shows DD5.1 as its mode rather than PCM, but I am guessing if my card was capable of bitstreaming it would show TrueHD / DTS-HD.

I had a look around and most BR rips I have seen only incorporate DD / DTS anyways, as It seems its a pain to get the DTS-HD working, so I wonder if it is worth my just buying a dedicated blu-ray player, as then at least I know my TV will play at the correct resolution, with TrueHD audio etc, and then buy a cheap 5450 as a second card to bitstream audio from the HTPC.

My TV is a Toshiba REGZA 32AV615DB, and It appears to have a native resolution of 1366x768, but even at that resolution its still not as sharp as my 22" monitor on a DVI connection. I can live with windows being a bit crappy, so if I at least have it set to the native res, will blu-rays play from the BD drive at full quality? I guess I am just not really trusting that this is giving me the same quality as an actual BR player.

Cheers, Stu.
 
Wow thanks for the fast and helpful reply.

The audio formats are starting to make a lot more sense now, when I play blu-rays from my pc, the receiver shows DD5.1 as its mode rather than PCM, but I am guessing if my card was capable of bitstreaming it would show TrueHD / DTS-HD.

Your card isn't capable of bitstreaming - but if it were you'd still have to configure your playback software and/or Windows to bitstream rather than decode to PCM and output PCM.

I had a look around and most BR rips I have seen only incorporate DD / DTS anyways, as It seems its a pain to get the DTS-HD working, so I wonder if it is worth my just buying a dedicated blu-ray player, as then at least I know my TV will play at the correct resolution, with TrueHD audio etc, and then buy a cheap 5450 as a second card to bitstream audio from the HTPC.

Given that you already have a card that outputs 5.1/7.1 PCM from True HD and DTS HD tracks on Blu-rays - I'd give those a listen first ?

Have you configured your HDMI sound device for 5.1/7.1 speakers in Windows Control Panels, and have you configured your BD replay software (PDVD, TMT or WinDVD) for PCM decoding rather than bitstreaming? If you compare the bitstreamed legacy codec core/supplementary tracks on a True HD or DTS HD disc with the PCM decoded True HD or DTS HD you can hear if you hear the improvement?

The huge advantage to using a PC over a Blu-ray player is that you can rip the Blu-rays losslessly and store them on a hard drive for library access. Much more convenient (and faster) than a standalone player.

My TV is a Toshiba REGZA 32AV615DB, and It appears to have a native resolution of 1366x768, but even at that resolution its still not as sharp as my 22" monitor on a DVI connection. I can live with windows being a bit crappy, so if I at least have it set to the native res, will blu-rays play from the BD drive at full quality? I guess I am just not really trusting that this is giving me the same quality as an actual BR player.

Your display can't display Blu-rays at full quality - 1080p Blu-rays are 1920x1080 and your panel will only display 1366x768 (close to 720p quality).

Somewhere Blu-rays are going to have to be rescaled - it's a choice between your PC and your TV rescaling.

Either you can run your desktop at 1366x768 and let your PC rescale the BD from 1920x1080 to 1366x768, or you can run your PC at 1920x1080 (which will probably make Windows look horridly fuzzy and all the text very small) and let your panel scale to 1366x768 (assuming you can feed your panel 1080p and not 1080i)

I'd try both and see which looks better. Some Sony BD releases have a useful test chart on them which can help.
 
Thanks again for the help, to be honest I havnt messed around too much with settings in TMT, I just ran the blu-ray, (which is the only one I have, and fairly old now so I am guessing the quality will have improved some by now on newer disks).

Having looked a little closer, windows is actually pretty sharp at 1920x1080, and that resolution is what windows7 is showing as recommended, its only internet browser windows that make it look unfocused, text in internet windows isnt too great.

1280x720 looks a lot better, and I was only using that because everything on screen was bigger and easier to read from further away. But having looked closer I think it only looks a hell of a lot sharper because everything is bigger.

Basically I just want to get the best video quality I can, I have been watching a downloaded TV series in 720p HD rip, with PC resolution of 1920x1080 and It looks great playing through MediaCentre so I guess if I just leave the resolution at its highest, there is no chance that blu-rays won't play to the highest standard possible using the gear that I have....hope Im getting this right anyways.

When I get home tonight I will have a play around with TMT decoding settings, and play the blu-ray again with PCM and 1920x1080 res in windows, (which my TV picks up as 1080i).

How do I change pixel mapping ratio? Is that a TV setting or ATi CCC?

Thanks again for the help, I know plenty about standard PC's, but coming to use one as a HTPC and its mind boggling.
 
If your TV has a native resolution (i.e. the panel resolution) of 1366x768 then 1280x720 (aka 720p) and 1920x1080 (aka 1080i/p) will both be scaled, you can't watch 1920x1080 1080p content in 1:1 pixel mode because your panel isn't sharp enough.

You MIGHT be able to drive your display in 1366x768 mode by running your PC resolution in 1366x768 - and if you can disable any display overscan this should look sharper than 1280x720 or 1920x1080 as there will be no scaling and you will get 1:1 pixel mapping (which is where your PC feeds your display at its native resolution AND your display doesn't do any overscan zooming/cropping) However getting 1366x768 at all refresh rates (which is required for smooth motion) can be tricky.

Also - you need to know if your display will accept and properly display a 24p signal to get optimum Blu-ray 1080p movie motion.
 

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