Best streaming integration into legacy audio setup

pred02

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Hi,

I almost exclusively listen to music streaming with Spotify. My current setup is streaming Spotify over Airplay from my iPhone through Airport Express into a Music Fidelity DAC (optical cables) into Arcam A85/P85 setup. I will soon be upgrading to another integrated amplifier, wondering if there is a better way for me to stream music? I also conscious that Spotify will upgrade to Hifi.

Would Bluesound Node 2i Hi Res Music Streamer provide higher quality streaming experience?I suspect yes because it will have Spotify Connect which is higher resolution than Airplay?

Thanks
 
TBH the Node 2i would be overkill if it's for just streaming using Spotify Connect - there are many other streamers out there that support Spotify Connect.

The proposed Spotify HiFi service is supposed to only provide lossless CD-res (16bit/44.1kHz) streams, not hi-res. Streaming Spotify via AirPlay from the iPhone should be good enough, as (for audio streaming) AirPlay uses the Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC) fixed at 16bit/44.1kHz, ie, CD-res. Spotify Connect most certainly does not stream audio at a higher resolution than AirPlay.

The main issue is that AirPlay uses an indirect method of streaming (the audio having to pass through the phone); whereas Spotify Connect is a direct method streaming (the audio tracks go directly to the streamer from Spotify's online server without passing through the phone). So with a Spoitify Connect streamer you can switch the iPhone off and the music will continue playing; with AirPlay you can't.
 
There is a spotify app for your tv.
 
TBH the Node 2i would be overkill if it's for just streaming using Spotify Connect - there are many other streamers out there that support Spotify Connect.

The proposed Spotify HiFi service is supposed to only provide lossless CD-res (16bit/44.1kHz) streams, not hi-res. Streaming Spotify via AirPlay from the iPhone should be good enough, as (for audio streaming) AirPlay uses the Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC) fixed at 16bit/44.1kHz, ie, CD-res. Spotify Connect most certainly does not stream audio at a higher resolution than AirPlay.

The main issue is that AirPlay uses an indirect method of streaming (the audio having to pass through the phone); whereas Spotify Connect is a direct method streaming (the audio tracks go directly to the streamer from Spotify's online server without passing through the phone). So with a Spoitify Connect streamer you can switch the iPhone off and the music will continue playing; with AirPlay you can't.
Thank you for this. I think probably the quality bottleneck with me resides in Spotify, therefore if I wanted to extract more should move to Tidal MQA or something similar. For Tidal, it would probably make sense to go with Node 2i. I currently have a Median DAC that supports MQA, not sure how good Node 2i DAC is going to be.
 
Thank you for this. I think probably the quality bottleneck with me resides in Spotify, therefore if I wanted to extract more should move to Tidal MQA or something similar. For Tidal, it would probably make sense to go with Node 2i. I currently have a Median DAC that supports MQA, not sure how good Node 2i DAC is going to be.
Do your research on MQA. It's well supported by many manufactures and completely avoided by others (possibly because you need to pay to licence it).
 
The cost of the MQA license to the manufacturer is probably not so significant as it can be simply passed on to its customers. There are arguably far more important reasons for some manufacturers choosing not to support MQA, eg Auralic's (see AURALiC vs DRM):
  • MQA is DRM;
  • MQA is a solution for a problem that no longer exists since internet streaming bandwidth limitations are no longer an issue;
  • MQA's compression method permanently removes bits from the original file so is lossy, essentially a high resolution version of MP3.
 
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Thank you for this. I think probably the quality bottleneck with me resides in Spotify, therefore if I wanted to extract more should move to Tidal MQA or something similar. For Tidal, it would probably make sense to go with Node 2i. I currently have a Median DAC that supports MQA, not sure how good Node 2i DAC is going to be.
Do your own independent research and if possible listen on your equipment. There alot of people or pro and anti MQA, it's worth forming your opinion on this.
 
Depending on your willingness to go DIY, there are some superb sounding options based on a Raspberry Pi. Pi 4 with an Allo Digione hat is what I run into my Matrix Audio for Spotify Connect use. I run Volumio with Logitech Media Server on top to get BBC Sounds streaming too.

Not difficult to put together and configure. There are also some prebuilt Pi based solutions out there too.
 
I connected a modern dac with volume control to a 20yr old audiolab 8000s.

8000s as pre/power, gave a muddy underwater sound.

8000s as power was superb.

Why not try vertically bi-amping your arcams as power amps.

Note where he says 3/4 of power supply goes to bass (more current).

 
Do your research on MQA. It's well supported by many manufactures and completely avoided by others (possibly because you need to pay to licence it).

Well - we dont directly pay. Quite honestly, I wouldnt bother getting hung up about MQA. If you want to use tidal, then sure, get a decent MQA DAC, otherwise no need, but a lot of common DACs these days have MQA support whether you care about it or not and in the sub 500UKP price (probably even sub 1k), you may not even tell the difference in terms of which is objectively better.

SQ wise, I think MQA/Tidal is only a problem when you dont have MQA capable equipment. When you do have a full decode and render pipeline, then SQ seems fine. (Im not going to get into which is best vs high res because I think production quality is a far greater and more variable issue in the industry and that hugely trumps the differences between CD, hi-res and MQA and TBH, some of the differences if perceivable at all may be down to personal preference like DAC filters can be).

And already some of the MQA comments in this thread are borderline bullshit.
 
Well - we dont directly pay. Quite honestly, I wouldnt bother getting hung up about MQA. If you want to use tidal, then sure, get a decent MQA DAC, otherwise no need, but a lot of common DACs these days have MQA support whether you care about it or not and in the sub 500UKP price (probably even sub 1k), you may not even tell the difference in terms of which is objectively better.

SQ wise, I think MQA/Tidal is only a problem when you dont have MQA capable equipment. When you do have a full decode and render pipeline, then SQ seems fine. (Im not going to get into which is best vs high res because I think production quality is a far greater and more variable issue in the industry and that hugely trumps the differences between CD, hi-res and MQA and TBH, some of the differences if perceivable at all may be down to personal preference like DAC filters can be).

And already some of the MQA comments in this thread are borderline bullsh*t.
Agree Khazul. Subscribed to tidal for 18 months, full unfold, dual clocks for accurate rendition of various 44.1/88.2/352.8/ 96&192 file Unfolds. Overall sq excellent, but sometimes let down by some very strange mastering to my ears Eg PF the wall. 24/44.1. Found QoBuZ to be more consistent and generally excellent sq. trying Amazon hd but not impressed so far. Bought a blue sound node (3) for radio paradise MQA streams. Love it. 24/96 files and mqa just the delivery. Those talking it down and hung up due lossy etc should open their ears and rejoice in superb sq. it’s free, what’s not to like?
Hi Op. can’t go wrong with the new Node for the money, imho. covers most bases and punches well above its price point. Nick Drakes cello song playing as I write. I have it on SACD. RP MQA not far short sq wise which is some achievement for internet radio. Will blow Spotify out of the water until their cd stream arrives.
 
Bought a blue sound node (3) for radio paradise MQA streams. Love it. 24/96 files and mqa just the delivery. Those talking it down and hung up due lossy etc should open their ears and rejoice in superb sq. it’s free, what’s not to like?

Interesting that you are seeing a 24bit/96kHz MQA decoded reading from Radio Paradise's MQA streams for BluOS. They should all still be 16bit/44.1kHz MQA-CD encoded streams (sourced from RP's existing lossless 16bit/44.1kHz CD-res FLAC streams), so with an original sample rate of 44.1kHz - which the Node's MQA decoder should decode to 24bit/88.2kHz, not 24bit/96kHz.

Has this always been the case or has there been a recent change? The proposed hi-res MQA streams have still not been announced as being officially launched in the relevant discussion on the Radio Paradise Community forum:
Index » Radio Paradise/General » About RP » MQA Stream Coming to BLUOS
 
Thanks all for your feedback. I've hit a bit of an upgrade bug so have swapped out the Arcam combo with the Music Fidelity A308 - again a legacy integrated but hopefully will provide more umph in my current setup (years prior abroad I had Rotel 991 with Paradigm and loved that setup).

Regarding the source for digital streaming I took the Tidal Hifi 3 month free subscription and am thinking if to switch out the Music Fidelity X-DAC (limited to 16/44) and Airport Express. I also have the Median 2 Explorer USB that I tested out some years ago but did not really use it as there weren't that many MQA tracks with Tidal.

What are the thoughts on the below for DAC):
Bluesound Node 2i (also for Tidal/Spotify transport)
Music Fidelity MX-DAC
SMSL SU-9 DAC
Gustard X-16
An older DAC like Music Fidelity Tri-Vista 23 (which is Tube)

I know it's hard to compare but would be good to understand which one give me best improvement in sound (I know Node 2i would give more convenience as a Tidayl/Spotify streamer).

Thanks,
 
Hi cebolla. According to Chris @rp. All their music is stored on their servers @24/96. Some of that is genuine 24/96. Rest has been upsampled from red book FLac. RP teamed with Bluesound to utilise their hardware and OS to exclusively create the MQA streams. Cannot get it on my TEAC. I bought the Node specifically to experience the MQA stream. A punt, but vindicated. To my ears it is a step up from the regular flac/alac lossless stream. others might disagree. My amp and speakers are highly resolving, but my ears might not be! Think that link is way out of date as been up and running for months.
 
Hi cebolla. According to Chris @rp. All their music is stored on their servers @24/96. Some of that is genuine 24/96. Rest has been upsampled from red book FLac. RP teamed with Bluesound to utilise their hardware and OS to exclusively create the MQA streams.
Yes, that is the proposed (special just for BluOS) hi-res MQA streams I was referring to - it still hasn't happened as far as I'm aware.

All the MQA streams you should currently be getting are just the (first stage) special just for BluOS 16bit/44.1kHz MQA (aka MQA-CD) streams, according to RP's founder Bill Goldstein:
https://radioparadise.com/community/forum/post/3901675
Here’s how it works currently: we assemble blocks of programming as 16/44.1 FLAC files. Those are then encoded into MQA. The folding/unfolding is something that happens when MQA encodes higher resolution input files into 16/44.1 output files. That whole part of their encoding isn’t utilized by our MQA stream at this time.


Here's what Bill said about what the proposed (second stage) hi-res MQA streams (taken from same post as above):
Here’s how it will work in the future: we assemble blocks of programming as 24/96 FLAC files, from uncompressed (non-MQA) masters of the highest available bitrate — 24/192, 24/96, 24/48, or 16/44.1 — that are then encoded, with folding, into a 16/44.1 MQA bitstream. They will also be available as uncompressed 24/96.
Note - there are a couple of possibly misleading typos/errors (highlighted) in that paragraph, which Bill later confirmed in the same thread that he should have actually said:
Here’s how it will work in the future: we assemble blocks of programming as 24/96 FLAC files, from uncompressed (non-MQA) masters of the highest available bitrate — 24/192, 24/96, 24/48, or 16/44.1 — that are then encoded, with folding, into a 24/48 MQA bitstream. They will also be available as lossless 24/96.


Apart from still no official launch announcement of the second stage by Radio Paradise, Bill promised that the lossless hi-res 24bit/96kHz FLAC streams, used to source the special just for BluOS hi-res MQA streams, would become available to everyone - that hasn't happened yet either:
https://radioparadise.com/community/forum/post/3901944
When we're ready to launch a hi-res stream, it will be available as straight FLAC as well as MQA.

Due to the nature of how we deliver our audio, it will never be a mix of different sample rates & bit depths. Everything needs to be standardized to the same rate, probably 24/96. Even if the only master we have is 16/44.1 it will be upsampled to 24/96 and will read out as such on your DAC.

Because we mix songs together into a continuous flow, there is absolutely no way around that.
 
Thanks for that. not seen their forum. I will look forward to the 24/96 stream as and when. In the meantime he MQA remains a step up to my ears.
correction to my comments regarding Amazon hd. Have now downloaded the iOS app and composed playlist which is picked up by the BlueOS app. SQ not bad at all!
 
What are the thoughts on the below for DAC):
Bluesound Node 2i (also for Tidal/Spotify transport)
Music Fidelity MX-DAC
SMSL SU-9 DAC
Gustard X-16
An older DAC like Music Fidelity Tri-Vista 23 (which is Tube)

Hi - just wanted to get people's thoughts on the following transport/DAC options in terms of sound quality. They are all in a similar price range. Thank you
 

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