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Best HDMI Upscaling DVD Player

Ramspeed

Novice Member
Hi there

I have a Sony V32 LCD and I bought a cheapo Sony DVP-NS5 prog scan DVD player (£60). The player's okay but a get a little motion judder. I'm told that it's probably down to poor 3:2 conversion and/or the deinteracing of the player. What should I upgrade to? The Oppo looks cool but I don't have DVI and don;t really want to get a converter. What about the new Denon 1920? i notice it has the Faroujda chip which has been problematic for macroblocking artefacts but advertises itself as using another company (Silicon Images?) for the upscaling so maybe not a problem. At around £200 looks very tempting. Any serious competition at that price? Am I barking up the wrong tree and the motion judder is the TV's fault and not my DVD player?

Any advice appreciated....
 
T

twobeagles

Guest
Ramspeed said:
Hi there

I have a Sony V32 LCD and I bought a cheapo Sony DVP-NS5 prog scan DVD player (£60). The player's okay but a get a little motion judder. I'm told that it's probably down to poor 3:2 conversion and/or the deinteracing of the player. What should I upgrade to? The Oppo looks cool but I don't have DVI and don;t really want to get a converter. What about the new Denon 1920? i notice it has the Faroujda chip which has been problematic for macroblocking artefacts but advertises itself as using another company (Silicon Images?) for the upscaling so maybe not a problem. At around £200 looks very tempting. Any serious competition at that price? Am I barking up the wrong tree and the motion judder is the TV's fault and not my DVD player?

Any advice appreciated....
I can't answer you last question, but I can comment on the Denon 1920. I bought one over the weekend and so far I love it. The macroblocking was a concern of mine, but it appears the problem has been taken care of. I don't think there is any serious competition in that price range. I looked into a few players that played both SACD and DVD-audio formats, but from what I read, these players were poor quality and a waste of money. For what you get with the Denon 1920, it is well worth the $350USD.

Best of Luck
:)
 

PJTX100

Well-known Member
twobeagles said:
I can't answer you last question, but I can comment on the Denon 1920. I bought one over the weekend and so far I love it. The macroblocking was a concern of mine, but it appears the problem has been taken care of. I don't think there is any serious competition in that price range.
I would hazard a guess that the Oppo was serious competition, granted it can't play DVD-A / SACD and it is DVI not HDMI...PJ
 

hillster

Active Member
I'll second the Denon 1920
 
S

Spacedog

Guest
twobeagles and hillster, sound-wise, are you connecting your 1920 to your amp via digital (coax or optical) or are you letting the 1920 decode all the sound (stereo/DD/DTS) and, therefore, connecting the 5.1 analog outs (and/or stereo analog outs) to your amp??

Thankx!
 

hillster

Active Member
Spacedog said:
twobeagles and hillster, sound-wise, are you connecting your 1920 to your amp via digital (coax or optical) or are you letting the 1920 decode all the sound (stereo/DD/DTS) and, therefore, connecting the 5.1 analog outs (and/or stereo analog outs) to your amp??

Thankx!
Using optical, very happy with the sound so far. :thumbsup:
 
S

Spacedog

Guest
Ok, so you're not really hearing the sound produced by the 1920 (you're just passing the 1s and 0s to your amp and using its DACs)...
 

pmc

Active Member
The Oppo comes with a free DVI-DVI or a DVI-HDMI cable. The DVI-HDMI cable isn't a 'converter', it just has a different plug.

I plug into my PJ via HDMI, no problems and a great picture.
 

hillster

Active Member
Spacedog said:
Ok, so you're not really hearing the sound produced by the 1920 (you're just passing the 1s and 0s to your amp and using its DACs)...
OK, I see. Bit new to all this. So would I get any benefits from connecting the other way and using the 1920 to produce the sound?
 
S

Spacedog

Guest
I also have a V32 and I guess I already made my mind and am going for a Denon 1920. I think the guys on Cambridge Audio are gonna make us wait forever for that firmware update :(

Also, there are some threads on avsforum.com that talk about sucessful setups concerning the V32 and the 1920 :thumbsup: And, compared to the DVD79/Oppo, it seems like the Denon is probably a better unit with probably better specs and some (even future-proof) advantages like:

-> better sound DACs
-> better video DACs (11/216)
-> has HDMI instead of DVI (video + sound, and I can connect it to an amp with HDMI input)
-> the 1920 can output progressive through its component outs (I can confirm the 480i/576i component outs of the DVD79 are very weak. Even SCART image looks much better!)
-> the FLI2301 has some features which are dedicated to progressive scan that aren't present in the FLI2310 (see here)
-> the 1920 has a Silicon Image chip which is dedicated to process and improve the PQ via HDMI (see here)

I guess these are enough advantages... :cool:
 

dbeamish

Novice Member
I would say oppo. It has DVI and comes with a DVI to HDMI cable is requested.

Also it does play DVD-Audio discs..

jsut not SACDs.
 
S

Spacedog

Guest
dbeamish said:
I would say oppo. It has DVI and comes with a DVI to HDMI cable is requested.
The fact that the 1920 doesn't come with a cable is not relevant to me.


dbeamish said:
Also it does play DVD-Audio discs..

jsut not SACDs.
I'm affraid that's not true, as you can see in here (click on the "more information..." link).
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
I think he means the Oppo!!

Don't forget the Oppos has advantages re HDCP as well. Lots of people recommending the 1920, how many have tested this against known performers?

Re

-> better sound DACs
-> better video DACs (11/216)
-> has HDMI instead of DVI (video + sound, and I can connect it to an amp with HDMI input)
-> the 1920 can output progressive through its component outs (I can confirm the 480i/576i component outs of the DVD79 are very weak. Even SCART image looks much better!)
-> the FLI2301 has some features which are dedicated to progressive scan that aren't present in the FLI2310 (see here)
-> the 1920 has a Silicon Image chip which is dedicated to process and improve the PQ via HDMI (see here)


This is NOT how I would asses a player, experrience has taught me it is a poor correlation. If I used that list tocompare against my Tag DVD32R, the Denon would win every time. Fancy trying it? It is how stuff is used that matters. The 3910 is a classic example of throwing everything at a problem and not excelling anywhere. Denon recent history is less than stellar. The new Denon looks interesting but I think it too early to give it rave reviews. Try before you buy.
 
S

Spacedog

Guest
I'm sorry if I didn't explain myself correctly.

I was NOT trying to give no rave review, recommend the 1920 to anyone OR even compare it to other players in the market other than the CA DVD79/Oppo/BBK !! :)

I was just trying to argument that probably, in my case, going for the 1920 is a better option than wait a million years for a Cambridge Audio firmware update for the DVD79 to correct its problems (and that, problems aside, the 1920 seems to be better than the DVD79)!

sorry if said anything wrong :oops:
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
No I think you miss understand me as well. I am consious that when a new player hits the market often we get a very biased view until 'someone' in the know takes it appart and finds out exactly how good it is, just being cautious. No appology necessary. I read rave reviews of the 950, so bought one, :(

If I had my way I would ignore upscaling!!

Personally I don't think CA will update their firmware. The oppo needs a few tweaks but seem to please everyone (well I haven't bought it yet :devil: ) so is the one to bench mark against. The Denon looks great just hope the firmware is up to speed, a typical Denon failing. Oppo is MUCH better in this regard.

I want to see facts about these players. Anyone know what MPEG decoder the Denon uses, this is often key to quality not SIL / Faroudja badges.... :smashin:
 
S

Spacedog

Guest
Just read a comparison in another thread between the 1920 and 2910 from nhart who had test the two head-to-head and it seems he found the 2910 noticeably superior picture-wise and sound-wise...

Now it just made me more unshure... :)
 

dbeamish

Novice Member
Spacedog said:
The fact that the 1920 doesn't come with a cable is not relevant to me.
I'm affraid that's not true, as you can see in here (click on the "more information..." link).
As has been said - wasn't talking to you matey. I was talking about the Oppo player which DOES come with a lead and DOES play DVD-Audio jsut no SACD.

cheers,
Dave
 

daxie

Standard Member
And Oppo is working on a HDMI version of their player...
Should be out in a while...

Good competition.
 

daxie

Standard Member
Nic Rhodes said:
but then we get HDCP by definition which is not a good thing.
Why not?

It's a DVD player, not a HD/Blue Ray player... So hdcp won't bugger it, since no content that will be played on it will have dhcp...

Connection wise it's an easier and tidier solution.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
99% of all DVDs you watch are likely to have copy protection like macrovision, if a player sees that with HDMI output it HAS to add HDCP. It is not just for HD it is for ALL HDMI players regardless of what they are (DVD, DTheatre, HD DVD, Blueray).

In my case with a HD CRT projector it means no pcture. Most others are in similar positions to me as HDCP aware displays are only just appearing in numbers and not everyone has a 3 month display (I wish).
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
It stops me viewing the picture!! It shuts it off. Any HDMI player that you can't remove HDCP will do that. A player that has DVI output can legally have no HDCP applied a la oppos / bk and this is then allow everyone to use it, not just a small sub set of the community. The down side? I don't think there is one, the DVI can be made to do everything the HDMI can do but without HDCP and without HDCP / HDMI licencing costs!!
 

PJTX100

Well-known Member
Nic Rhodes said:
I don't think there is one, the DVI can be made to do everything the HDMI can do but without HDCP and without HDCP / HDMI licencing costs!!
I think I read some comment along the lines that "DVI is lower bandwidth" or something like that... or was it "lower bits ie 10bit not 12bit". Does that make any difference?...PJ
 

pmc

Active Member
Ramspeed said:
thanks PMC - the oppo looks mighty tempting suddenly. Noticed any macroblocking on it?
No macroblocking at all for me.

There are a few issues. I have noticed on one or two DVD some artifacts around diagonal edges. To be fair though these are, ahem, on backed up disks. They look fine on my Panny DMR 100 though. I'v never seen any artifacts of any description on original copies.

There is a small black border around the picture on my PJ. Not a problem though and they are supposed to be working on a fix.

The biggest issue for me is lip sync. It can be quite noticable at times. Although they have a added an audio delay I find it ridiculous that I have to play around with it half way through a movie. Very distracting. I think they really need to sort this out on a firmware upgrade.

Still the picture is excellent. Very filmic, especially on high quality sources. I think the main point with the Oppo is that it's an excellent player for the price. If you pay twice as much you'll get a better player.
 

PJTX100

Well-known Member
pmc said:
There is a small black border around the picture on my PJ. Not a problem though and they are supposed to be working on a fix.
Interesting if they are. This is where zoom on a PJ comes in useful...PJ
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
PJTX100 said:
I think I read some comment along the lines that "DVI is lower bandwidth" or something like that... or was it "lower bits ie 10bit not 12bit". Does that make any difference?...PJ
DVI bandwidth is VERY high, it has the ability to use dual links (two parallel identical systems). Apple use this for their mega resolution big LCD monitors. I single link will deal with all the AV interestes, even 1080p I think. DVI is an 8 bit system.

HDMI is an 14 bit system so allows for 'growth' but as DVD is just 8 bit them both systems are fine for DVD.

So no differnece practically but HDMI ofeers some growth for future formats (beyond HD DVD / Blueray)
 

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