Best HDMI to RGBHV converters for analog displays.

Stridsvognen

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Ill try to put together some tests of different HDMI to RGBHV converters, document performance.

Test units will be.

Hdfury3
Hdfury4
Moome, different models.
A chinese 20$ comnverter.
DVDO VP30
DVDO VP50
Lumagen HDQ
Calibre vantage.
Crystalio 2
a 20$ chinese HDMI splitter.

Ill use my Marquee 9500 projector for the testing
Ill be able to run my Chroma 2337 350Mhz test pattern generator as a reference.

It will take some time getting around all of this, with different resolutions and different evaluation parameters, so be patient.

If anybody have some of the same products, your welcome to join, and post your test results, or if anyone like some help connecting a analog display to a digital source, feel free to ask.
 
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Ill start with these 4 different devices, with the SMPTE pattern, checking bandwidth performance
For a start ill do 720P 60hz, 1080P 60hz, 1080P 72hz, all with standard timings.

Ill be displaying green only as different resolutions and scanrates will take a lot of time aligning the CRT to each resolutions. With green only ill be able to plug a device and shoot a pic, and move on.

WP_20160413_14_08_52_Pro - Kopi.jpg
 
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Starting with the Chinese 20$ converter, who had a few small changes mede, for a few $ of parts, and 5 min work.

WP_20160413_14_08_52_Pro - Kopi.jpg


720P 60hz

IMGP0872.JPG
IMGP0871.JPG


1080P 60hz 148Mhz

IMGP0870.JPG
IMGP0869.JPG


1080P 72hz 178Mhz not supported by the specs of this unit.

IMGP0868.JPG
IMGP0867.JPG

IMGP0880.JPG
 
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Hdfury4 / 3DFury 400$

WP_20160413_14_08_52_Pro - Kopi.jpg


720P 60hz

IMGP0873.JPG
IMGP0874.JPG


1080P 60hz 148Mhz

IMGP0875.JPG
IMGP0876.JPG


1080P 72hz 178Mhz supported by the specs of this device, and manufacture claims a 200Mhz analog bandwidth.

IMGP0877.JPG

IMGP0878.JPG
IMGP0879.JPG
 
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Hdfury3 250$

WP_20160413_14_08_52_Pro.jpg


720P 60hz

IMGP0887.JPG
IMGP0886.JPG


1080P 60hz 148Mhz

IMGP0885.JPG
IMGP0884.JPG


1080P 72hz 178Mhz, not supported by the specs of this device.

IMGP0883.JPG
IMGP0882.JPG
IMGP0881.JPG
 
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Moome card 350$

WP_20160413_14_08_52_Pro - Kopi - Kopi.jpg


720P 60hz

IMGP0888.JPG
IMGP0889.JPG


1080P 60hz 148Mhz

IMGP0894.JPG
IMGP0890.JPG


1080P 72hz 172Mhz Not supported by the specs of this device.

IMGP0891.JPG
IMGP0892.JPG
IMGP0893.JPG
 
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Chinese HDMI splitter
 
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LUMAGEN HDQ 100-200$ used.

1080P 60hz

IMGP0909.JPG


Not a scaler/ converter ill recommend anyone, DVI inputs, dont handle 1080P 60hz in, and not a very nice DAC.
 
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Calibre vantage

1080P 60hz

IMGP0908.JPG


Very nice clean analog output, nice black level with standard settings, where all the other scalers are way off. And the best bandwidth of all the old scalers.
 
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Crystalio 2

1080P 60hz

IMGP0910.JPG
 
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DVDO VP30
 
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DVDO VP50 Used price around 200$.

720P 60hz

IMGP0904.JPG


It was not worth continue with higher resolution, this scaler is best used HDMI in HDMI out, and then a chinese 20$ converter.
 
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So why does the HD Fury product fail so badly?
 
So why does the HD Fury product fail so badly?

I think its the dac chip they use, or the way they implement it, maybe the power supply, it was the first time last night i sent 1080P 72hz true the Hdfury3, and the way it behaves make me think that the Hdfury3 and 4 uses the same DAC/ analog stage.

You will see the moome card do the same distortion on the red channel if you push it to around 230-240Mhz. Wich im quite sure is the DAC giving up. And in the specs its made for up to 165Mhz, but they run smooth with up to 220Mhz.

The china box handles quite well, its not perfect at 178Mhz, it starts to add some noise, and streaking, but looking at the price thats quite amasing, and for 1080P 60hz 148Mhz its a super nice performer.

The standard chinabox, and moome card will look different, with quite some roleoff, but thats the filters that is to hard on the output, a easy fix, and even with the original filters they will never create distortion like the Hdfury.

For bandwidth performance 3 out of 4 perform well with 720P 60hz, the Hdfury3 have some roleoff at 720P 60hz. wich if i remember right is around 78Mhz.
 
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As the Hdfury devices seems to stay on the market, ill try go true some of the other problems they have regarding specs and features that has been a bit to optimistic, or never finished, asap.
 
A 18USD Chinese HDMI to VGA converter:
hdmi_18usd.jpg
The output was awfully filtered as it came, it could not even resolve 800x600 60Hz on according to the oscilloscope, moreover one of the output termination resistor was a wrong value, so the output levels did not match.
But after removing the filter network and correcting the termination it revealed that the output rise time I could measure is around 1.6ns, which would equal to ~375MHz analog bandwidth, that is quite good, with adding a filter of course would affect this speed, but the raw power is there for sure. It drived my 3m long RGBHV cable with ease.
There is only one video IC there an EP94Z1E.
chinese_hdmi.jpg

Actual screenshot: later.
 
A 18USD Chinese HDMI to VGA converter:
View attachment 721807
The output was awfully filtered as it came, it could not even resolve 800x600 60Hz on according to the oscilloscope, moreover one of the output termination resistor was a wrong value, so the output levels did not match.
But after removing the filter network and correcting the termination it revealed that the output rise time I could measure is around 1.6ns, which would equal to ~375MHz analog bandwidth, that is quite good, with adding a filter of course would affect this speed, but the raw power is there for sure. It drived my 3m long RGBHV cable with ease.
There is only one video IC there an EP94Z1E.
View attachment 721806

Actual screenshot: later.
You have that screenshot I am interested in this?
 
Got some new Chinatoys..

A 10$ HDMI to RGBHV converter, and a 5 X 1 HDMI switcher with remote, wich should also be a 4K/ UHD HDCP stripper.

Chinastuff.jpg
 
Interesting thread but I hoped for a product I can buy - any chance you will come up with a recommendation?

So far it seems you have found two cheap converters that both have to be modified to look good which can be a task in itself.

Another interesting question: Will they support custom resolutions or are they like the Moome products which do not recognize a lot of custom resolutions that should be perfectly fine like 1440 x 960 with 48 Hz for example.

By all means keep up the good work but it would be nice to see a product we can buy :)
 
Interesting thread but I hoped for a product I can buy - any chance you will come up with a recommendation?

So far it seems you have found two cheap converters that both have to be modified to look good which can be a task in itself.

Another interesting question: Will they support custom resolutions or are they like the Moome products which do not recognize a lot of custom resolutions that should be perfectly fine like 1440 x 960 with 48 Hz for example.

By all means keep up the good work but it would be nice to see a product we can buy :)

In general the advice is, buy the cheapest device that fits your need.
The Hdfury products have some features, some works, others dont, but in general the analog output is worse than the cheapest alternative.

DACs like these, or at least all i have had will display whatever you trow at them, as long as they are not pushed above the max pixel clock, so they are not limited to any resolution, and if you have issues, try check out your timings, if PC you might run huge porch timings, the pixel clock is H total x V total x framerate, and normaly max is around 165Mhz, the Marquee Moome card will do 200-220Mhz without issues, others break up earlier, i doubt the problem you have with 1440 x 960 48hz is a problem with the moome, unless your pixel clock is above 200Mhz.
 
In general the advice is, buy the cheapest device that fits your need.
The Hdfury products have some features, some works, others dont, but in general the analog output is worse than the cheapest alternative.

DACs like these, or at least all i have had will display whatever you trow at them, as long as they are not pushed above the max pixel clock, so they are not limited to any resolution, and if you have issues, try check out your timings, if PC you might run huge porch timings, the pixel clock is H total x V total x framerate, and normaly max is around 165Mhz, the Marquee Moome card will do 200-220Mhz without issues, others break up earlier, i doubt the problem you have with 1440 x 960 48hz is a problem with the moome, unless your pixel clock is above 200Mhz.


Going by the name of this thread BEST HDMI to RGBHV CONVERTERS FOR ANALOG DISPLAYS I would expect a recommendation not "get what fits your need" when exactly this is what I am still looking for after having seen about 10 D/A converters both internal and external ;) My need is to have a very good high bandwidth external solution and so far I have tried the Moome and HDFury products and have come away less than impressed.

What about this converter that you posted pics of and that looks the closest to the MOOME input card in your pics - how about a link where to order it and also what needs to be modified. I guess that the pics from the stock configuration would have been much less impressive.
Are there Chinese products that use a higher bandwidth D/A chip than the standard 165 Mhz one?

it would also be interesting to see where the Chinese and the Moome solution have their limits - what about feeding them a 190 , 200 or 210 Mhz signal?
I guess it would not work to try this with the Moome card from what I have seen as it seems to be averse to non standard refresh rates and resolutions so it simply will not lock on to the signal - for my use this is an annoying drawback compared to the HDFury products.
 
Going by the name of this thread BEST HDMI to RGBHV CONVERTERS FOR ANALOG DISPLAYS I would expect a recommendation not "get what fits your need" when exactly this is what I am still looking for after having seen about 10 D/A converters both internal and external ;) My need is to have a very good high bandwidth external solution and so far I have tried the Moome and HDFury products and have come away less than impressed.

What about this converter that you posted pics of and that looks the closest to the MOOME input card in your pics - how about a link where to order it and also what needs to be modified. I guess that the pics from the stock configuration would have been much less impressive.
Are there Chinese products that use a higher bandwidth D/A chip than the standard 165 Mhz one?

it would also be interesting to see where the Chinese and the Moome solution have their limits - what about feeding them a 190 , 200 or 210 Mhz signal?
I guess it would not work to try this with the Moome card from what I have seen as it seems to be averse to non standard refresh rates and resolutions so it simply will not lock on to the signal - for my use this is an annoying drawback compared to the HDFury products.

Its kind of hard to recommend something not knowing what its for, so it would be a great help if you list your videochain from source to display, every step, and even better with pictures.
Analog displays is not perfect, and some will look better with a dac that is not to high bandwidth, most analog displays are not made for high bandwidth use, not that some of them cant display, but thats far from the same as resolving, or working well with it.

Also you mention the moome, there is like 20 moome products, so if you tell what specifik moome product you have, ill be able to see if i have it to.
As i mentioned in the last post, most/ all the converters i have will support any resolution inside the bandwidth they can handle, so if you have a moome that dont, ill guess its defect, or you have something else in your videochain that dont like the specifik resolution.
 
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