Best alternative to Yamaha DSPAX763

[Andyc247]

I was hoping to buy a Yamaha DSPAX763 as part of the last shipment to the UK but learnt today that it isnt going to happen ! So what alternative ?

I have looked at the new Yamaha RX-V565 but it looks like the design has been cheapened and doesnt represent good value for money (eg spring clip speaker connections and smaller PSU). I dont like the look of Onkyo AV amps.

Looking for 5.1 (7.1 is a bonus but not essential) and must be good for music as well as cinema. What is the best value for money alternative now ? Preferred budget is around £400 but could go to £600.

Andrew

 

[Andyc247]

Forgot to mention that I dont need an integrated tuner. That was one of the advantage of the Yamaha.

 

[Tone-uk]

I'd say take a look at the Yamaha 663.


Yamaha RX-V663 A/V Receiver Overview — Reviews and News from Audioholics

http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/115...srcid=6114&Partenaire=kelkoo_uk&CodePromo=oui

 

[davepuma]

Denon?

 

[scrapbook]

The 565 is never going to be an alternative to the 763. The 765 will be out soon..time will tell if it is a good alternative to the 763

 

[Don Dadda]

Hi Andy

"Good with Music".

Sorry to be I be blunt, but If you are you looking for an av that is as good as a hifi amp at equal prices, you won't. Not unless you are willing to pay at least 2 or 3x the amount you would on a stereo amp to have similar quality on a av.

I have a 763 and its fantastic with films but only acceptable with music IMO, and it's not something i could live with on a permanent basis.

The 863 is supposed to be better with music. Haven't heard one so can't comment.

Yamaha DSP-AX763 AV Amplifier

This site also have the 763 but both could be like you said in your post due to the arrival of the new models.

The Marantz SR5003 and SR6003 are suppose to be 1 of the better ones with music in the given price range (SR6003 is a bit outside the range), but again couldn't beat a stereo amp pound for pound or even couple hundred less.


Don

PS: I think the Yamaha's were the only av's without tuners. Can't think of any other. I found this to my liking too as i don't use it.

 

[Passingbat]

Denon?

I would look at the denon 2309; well speced and at launch about £650 I believe. Now £450-500.

A google search will find more but Richer sounds have them but in store only.

DENON AVR2309 at Richer Sounds - HI-FI Separates, Home Cinema, Speakers, MP3 DVD Portables, Plasma LCD, etc.

 

[davepuma]

The 2309 didn't offer that much over the 1909 for the average user but does have more inputs, a bit more power and pre-outs for connection to external amplification, which would be handy if you had a power amp or hifi amp and would free up some power for the other channels and allow to maintain good stereo playback.

I agree with the suggestion of Marantz. The SR5003/6003 should do nicely. Hopefully the new models will all arrive soon so we can hear some reviews and owner's opinions.

 

[Passingbat]

The 2309 didn't offer that much over the 1909 for the average user but does have more inputs, a bit more power and pre-outs for connection to external amplification, which would be handy if you had a power amp or hifi amp and would free up some power for the other channels and allow to maintain good stereo playback.

True but can you get a 1909 at the moment? ---- they seem fairly rare --- the 2309 seems to be more readily available and the reason for suggesting it. Personally, the extras would be worth it for me.

I agree with the suggestion of Marantz. The SR5003/6003 should do nicely. Hopefully the new models will all arrive soon so we can hear some reviews and owner's opinions

The Maranz 5003 and 6003 can't decode bitstream HD audio AND run Audessy equalisation at the same time. If you get the BR player to decode the HD audio and send it as LPCM, the Audessy will work. Apparantly it is lack of processing power that prevents them doing both at the same time. Out of interest, the Denons with the same Audessy CAN do both.

 

[Don Dadda]

The Maranz 5003 and 6003 can't decode bitstream HD audio AND run Audessy equalisation at the same time. If you get the BR player to decode the HD audio and send it as LPCM, the Audessy will work. Apparantly it is lack of processing power that prevents them doing both at the same time. Out of interest, the Denons with the same Audessy CAN do both.

That's probably because they put more effort into the musical abilities. There always a trade off somewhere. If this is an issue for you, as dicklodge said, get a BR player with onboard HD decoding as it does not cost any extra to one without.

Both can be found around the £150 mark.

I.e.
Panasonic DMP-BD35EB-K Profile 2 Blu-ray Disc Player: With Onboard HD Decoding

Sony BDPS350 Blu-ray Disc Player 1080p Full HD: without onboard HD decoding

 

[Tone-uk]

Worth pointing out the Marantz sr6003 is very comparable to the Yamaha v1900/Denon 2809 and a few out there have even suggested the Yamaha 3900 and have not been laughed at!!
It, therefore, seems logical that the sr5003 is in the same camp as at least the Denon 2309 and Yamaha 863 (although I have my suspicions the sr5003 will be better!)
The sr4003 would be at least on par with the Yamaha 763 and Denon 1909. In my experience the sr4002 outperformed them and was better than my Yamaha 861se and I can't see the sr4003 doing worse.

The sr4002 can be had for £260. Now that is a bargain imo!

Marantz SR4002 Digital EX®/DTS ES® Surround Receiver: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

 

[Andyc247]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I looked at the Yamaha 663, which looks like it is still available. It seems similar to the 763 but minus the phono input and plus AM/FM tuner. So its a maybe except I dont want a tuner and it would be useful to have the phono input.

I think there may be still a few 863s out there, so maybe ...

I looked at the Denon 2309 and that looks good value for £450 at RicherSounds - a pity you cant mail order it but I think that is down to Denon rules !

I havent considered the Marantz series at all so I will now investigate. It sounds like it will be a better compromise between music and cinema abilities. I agree that an AV amp that I can afford will never compare with a dedicated stereo amp. But I am in my middle years and I know my hearing is not what it once was so probably the compromise will be OK.

 

[Passingbat]

That's probably because they put more effort into the musical abilities.

Or they screwed up!? Denons can do it.

There always a trade off somewhere. If this is an issue for you, as dicklodge said, get a BR player with onboard HD decoding as it does not cost any extra to one without.

Both can be found around the £150 mark.

I.e.
Panasonic DMP-BD35EB-K Profile 2 Blu-ray Disc Player: With Onboard HD Decoding

Sony BDPS350 Blu-ray Disc Player 1080p Full HD: without onboard HD decoding

The trouble is it limits your BR choice; the Sony S350 you mention can't decode DTS-MA so the only option is to bitstream that and then no Audessy. If you move up to the S550, that will decode DTS-MA, you have another problem ---- the S550 doesn't give you the option to choose between bitstream amd LPCM --- if the reciever can take Bitstream, that's what it sends.

I'm not doubting the audio capability of the Maranz --- I've looked into them myself because of that. If the limitations don't bother someone, then they are a good choice. Personally, I don't like my other equipment choices being limited by an amp that was flawed in some part of it's design, whether it be the Audessy with the Maranz or the lack of 24fps on the Yamaha '61 series or the BTB, WTW issues on the Yamaha '63 series. There really is no excuse for these sorts of issues from established reputable manufacturers. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Tone-uk]

Hey! You leave my Yamaha 861 outta this!

 

[Tone-uk]

You can get 24pfs on the x61 Yamaha's. May have some EDID issues with some components but, this can happen with newer 24fps receivers and older tv's or older blu-ray players as well! This is why lots of sony blu-ray players and other makes too have the "forced 24p" option which bypasses such issues.

Only way to be sure of no EDID issues is to buy all new 24fps compatible equipment and TEST they work together.

 

[Andyc247]

Just to check my understanding with the Audessy issue on the Marantz. Does this limitation just affect its ability to do an auto set up with HD audio ? Most posts I've read about using Audessy seem to say that it doesnt end up with a good EQ and you end up doing it manually anyway. Although I guess that means you have to own a SPL meter. Or have I got it wrong ?

Andrew

 

[Passingbat]

Hey! You leave my Yamaha 861 outta this!

Sorry about that! I think I'm frustrated because if it hadn't been for the 24fps issue, I would have bought one of those! Quality at a bargain price. I wasn't prepared to compromise or be limited on my Blue Ray choice though.

 

[Passingbat]

Just to check my understanding with the Audessy issue on the Marantz. Does this limitation just affect its ability to do an auto set up with HD audio ? Most posts I've read about using Audessy seem to say that it doesnt end up with a good EQ and you end up doing it manually anyway. Although I guess that means you have to own a SPL meter. Or have I got it wrong ?

Andrew

Some things still work; it's the equalisation that is affected. This is the best place to get the info --- copied and edited from another post I did on another thread:

maybe this link will explain better the problems that Maranz recievers using Audessy are experiencing.

This is the first mention, then POST 110 onwards is the main discussion on this topic.

No EQ for HBR material?
According to the 5003 and 6003 manuals, the Audyssey EQ is useless for DD+, TrueHD and DTS-HD material - the EQ simply cannot be applied in this case (channel trim/delay, crossover freqs, etc. continue to work, though.) It seems odd that one of the features that are supposed to be among strong selling points of the receiver is essentially disabled for much of the Bluray content. Has anyone tried to verify this?

"Official" Marantz SR5003/6003/7003/8003 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum

 

[Tone-uk]

dicklodge

My Yammy forgives you!

Seems to me you will most likely end up with a v1900! Hopefully, they come down a bit more in price. I admire you ability to wait though!

Mind you, I agree that the Denon 2309 is a good buy - but would it outperform your v1500? Hmmm I doubt it.

 

[Andyc247]

Hmm decisions, decisions ....

No 763s or 863s left in the UK. Might be some RX-V663s.

So looks like it is Denon 2309 vs Marantz 5003.

Or maybe just delay and wait for the reviews of all the new AV amps to come in.

Don't know what to do at the moment.

Andrew

 

[Passingbat]

My Yammy forgives you!

Phew!, that's a relief

Mind you, I agree that the Denon 2309 is a good buy - but would it outperform your v1500? Hmmm I doubt it.

And there lies my problem; trying to find something cheaper than the 1900 that will at least sound as good as the 1500, has HDMI decoding and a fair smattering of the older (at least 3 component, 3 optical, 2 coaxial) connections. Trouble is, in my searches, I keep coming across undesireable limitations. Is ignorance bliss?

 

[Don Dadda]

Or they screwed up!? Denons can do it.


The trouble is it limits your BR choice; the Sony S350 you mention can't decode DTS-MA so the only option is to bitstream that and then no Audessy. If you move up to the S550, that will decode DTS-MA, you have another problem ---- the S550 doesn't give you the option to choose between bitstream amd LPCM --- if the reciever can take Bitstream, that's what it sends.

I'm not doubting the audio capability of the Maranz --- I've looked into them myself because of that. If the limitations don't bother someone, then they are a good choice. Personally, I don't like my other equipment choices being limited by an amp that was flawed in some part of it's design, whether it be the Audessy with the Maranz or the lack of 24fps on the Yamaha '61 series or the BTB, WTW issues on the Yamaha '63 series. There really is no excuse for these sorts of issues from established reputable manufacturers. Just my humble opinion.

I didn't know that about the BR players but you live and you learn from forums such as this and thats why it great they exist and we can share knowledge, imo
I don't think they screwed up, i believe they purposely didn't give it to you because they gave you someting else instead. All manufactuers, Yamaha , Marantz, Denon sony,etc all do that. 1 will have all the hd formats, another will have half but sounds better, another with features that the previous 2 didn't have but lacking in something they do, or have everything they have plus 1 extra feature and so on. I may prefer the marantz for its musical abiltites, you may prefer the denon for it bitstream decoding. Different options for different people with different needs. If want everything then you start looking at the high end AV's. There's always going to be a compremise at this price range.

All the AV's suggested here are of top quality for whatever reasons. It just down to the indivdual to sus out his/her partcular needs and go for the av that are most suitable for them.
The Denon 2309 is definitely a bargain for £450 and one to consider. with regards to Audessy on the Marantz, it can be set mauamally can't it or does this stll create a problem?
I had to set my 763 maually cos it weren't that great when it was set automatically. It didn't take long and i found it to be more precise for my seating position.

 

[Andyc247]

Ok having looked into the Marantz I am going to pass on it even though it probably has better music abilities.

So I think I am down to Yamaha RX-V663, which is very similar to the 763 I really wanted, and the Denon 2309.

Does anyone have any pros/cons on these two that will help me choose ?

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[Passingbat]

Ok having looked into the Marantz I am going to pass on it even though it probably has better music abilities.

So I think I am down to Yamaha RX-V663, which is very similar to the 763 I really wanted, and the Denon 2309.

Does anyone have any pros/cons on these two that will help me choose ?

Cheers,
Andrew

As you've probably gathered, I tend to check details. I may be wrong here (and I hope I am) but I think the RX-V663 may have been a European, not UK model. (I believe Pixmania is originally French or some other continental country based).

Now this probably doesn't make a difference, but it's worth checking warranty is covered by either Yamaha UK or that it's hassle fee with Pixmania.

I remeber 4 years ago when I bought my Yamaha, there was a long thread on these forums about people buying from Germany, because it was cheaper and you got the reciever, rather than the amp version. The consensus was that Yamaha UK would honour the warranty anyway.

As someone who likes to cross as many 't's' etc., it's something I would check. Yamaha have just updated the UK site with the new models so the '63 series have gone, so can't check there.

As I said, I hope my memory has let me down and there was a rx-v663 in the UK, though this post tends to suggest it wasn't a UK model
http://www.avforums.com/forums/8312499-post2.html

 

[Passingbat]

Just going back to your very first post about wanting a 763.

This site sys they have some coming soon and is run by a forums assured advertiser who posts here. Worth a phone call?

Yamaha DSP-AX763 AV Amplifier - Quantum Electronics (UK) Limited