best 5.1/7.1 analogue output

Darthtater

Active Member
IIRC the only player available in UK with 7.1 analogue is / was Panasonic BD10, this was the deciding factor, togrther with recent price reductions for my choice, as I was not going to upgrade amp to suit other players.
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
The Sharp HP20 has 7.1 analog too.

My question really was more to do with how impressed people have been with the quality of the analogue sound output with respect to their player.
 

Johndm

Active Member
The Sharp HP20 has 7.1 analog too.

My question really was more to do with how impressed people have been with the quality of the analogue sound output with respect to their player.

Slightly more fiddly to set up, as I have to manually adjust the bass level on my amp to +9 or 10 to get a similar sound field, and of course you have to live with the fact that your amp won't display anything except in my case 'multi channel analogue'.

If you can live without the flashy lights.....its miles better for quality than standard DD or DTS through optical or coax....

:hiya:
 

jolly

Well-known Member
I think iam going to order a DMP-BD10A from america and use my ps3 for english discs




Steve
 

theo cupier

Active Member
IIRC the only player available in UK with 7.1 analogue is / was Panasonic BD10,

The Sharp HP20 has 7.1 analog too.

Four questions, (all probably stupid):
1. Does this mean that these 2 players decode the HD audio soundtracks on board and send it as LPCM to the amp, via analog?
2. Which HD audio soundtracks can they decode (I'm coming from the Toshiba HD EP35 HD DVD player which will only decode DD+ and TrueHD, and will only touch the core DTS track)
3. Does the list widen if you're only interested in 5.1 channel audio, not 7.1?
4. Are there any players currently planned which will add to this list?
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
Four questions, (all probably stupid):
1. Does this mean that these 2 players decode the HD audio soundtracks on board and send it as LPCM to the amp, via analog?
2. Which HD audio soundtracks can they decode (I'm coming from the Toshiba HD EP35 HD DVD player which will only decode DD+ and TrueHD, and will only touch the core DTS track)
3. Does the list widen if you're only interested in 5.1 channel audio, not 7.1?
4. Are there any players currently planned which will add to this list?

1). Yes and No, LCPM is a digital signal and cannot be sent via analogue. The player has it's own DACs and your amp has to only deal with an analogue signal. Yes this means that HD audio must be decoded in player and all bass management must be done in player too, so you need to make sure the BM is good enough for your needs.
2) So far the best players (Panasonic BD10, some Sony's, some Pioneers) decode DD+, TrueHD and DTS-HD HR but NOT MA. The newly announced Panasonic BD50 claims MA support (as well as being profile 2.0 capable).
3) No, same players.
4) Announcements appearing now from CES, keep a watch on the forums and I'm sure you won't miss them.
 

tony @ suffolk

Active Member
Like several of you folks, I also bought a BD10 for its 7.1 analogue outputs. And very good it is too!

However, I think if you're content with 5.1 analogue then there are several other players that offer this I believe. Certainly Sony's one option.
 

theo cupier

Active Member
1). Yes and No, LCPM is a digital signal and cannot be sent via analogue. The player has it's own DACs and your amp has to only deal with an analogue signal. Yes this means that HD audio must be decoded in player and all bass management must be done in player too, so you need to make sure the BM is good enough for your needs.
Yep, sorry, slight infelicity of terms. Analog output to an amp with all the processing & balance done in the player is what I'm after
2) So far the best players (Panasonic BD10, some Sony's, some Pioneers) decode DD+, TrueHD and DTS-HD HR but NOT MA
is the Samsung 1400 in that list as well?
 

Mr_Sukebe

Active Member
Personally I wouldn't trust the analogue output sections in any of the existing BD players, as I'm severely doubtful as to their focus on doing a really good job.
For example (and I know this isn't representative for all BD players), I've compared the analogue output from my Sammy BD player (thus decoding the HD audio signal onboard) to using a coax digital output to an external amp (thus using the audio from normal DTS), and IMO the non-HD audio sounded better. The Sammy is clearly working with a higher quality audio medium, meaning that the onboard processing is frankly pants.

My personal opinion is that the optimum route is something like a PS3, mated to a high quality HD capable AV processor when they become more available.
The only unit I know of right now is the Integra (something or other), with the new Audiolab AP8000 due shortly. Having said that, it's only a matter of time.

Note that Denon are kind of alluding to the above with one of their planned new BD player where it doesn't have any onboard sound decoding.

One final option might be the upcoming Marantz BD player, which may well be able to finally add some really quality to the decoding.
 

theo cupier

Active Member
Like several of you folks, I also bought a BD10 for its 7.1 analogue outputs. And very good it is too!

However, I think if you're content with 5.1 analogue then there are several other players that offer this I believe. Certainly Sony's one option.

I looked through the Sony website and this is less than clear. It is very confusing but seems to suggest that, although many players (such as the BDP-S500) will decode the HD audio onboard, they will only output this via HDMI.

Can anyone clarify this?
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
Note that Denon are kind of alluding to the above with one of their planned new BD player where it doesn't have any onboard sound decoding.
The Denon DOES have onboard sound decoding, it just doesn't have any analogue outputs full stop. It passes either non-decoded bitstream (won't work at all with profile 1.1) or decoded and mixed PCM which is what you'll HAVE to use if you want profile 1.1 extras to work as intended.

What's not clear, and it looks like a potentially MAJOR difference between the two models, is that the transport will not decode HD audio. So... if you buy the transport only, but want to view 1.1 content, presumably the resultant PCM stream is mixed from the standard DD/DTS mixes provided which means you will not be able to enjoy advanced content and HD audio at the same time. It will be either HD audio with no interactivity, or interactivity with no HD audio.

The more expensive player should be able to allow you to have interactivity AND HD audio output either as PCM over HDMI or through the analogue outputs.
 

Johndm

Active Member
Personally I wouldn't trust the analogue output sections in any of the existing BD players, as I'm severely doubtful as to their focus on doing a really good job.
For example (and I know this isn't representative for all BD players), I've compared the analogue output from my Sammy BD player (thus decoding the HD audio signal onboard) to using a coax digital output to an external amp (thus using the audio from normal DTS), and IMO the non-HD audio sounded better. The Sammy is clearly working with a higher quality audio medium, meaning that the onboard processing is frankly pants.
.

Definatley not the case with my Panny BD10A......even with its limited LFE crossover setting at 100 hz, it does a damm good job via analogue, but I do have to boost the sub level on my amp to +9 or 10 to get good bass.
This is the same minor problem I've always had when listening to DVD-Audio via analogue 7.1 with a similar spec non BD Panny player.

:hiya:
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
The two BD players with 7.1 analogue outs - what adjustments can you make 'in player'?

I'm thinking of speaker size, distance, level, etc,

Cheers.

Steve W

With the Sharp you can adjust for all 3. With the sub, there is no distance setting though ( or obviously size). Would love to know if the Panasonic can adjust for all 3.
 

Event Horizon

Well-known Member
hi!!!
tausifs how did you find the sharp.....just wandering as it sounds like you are looking to upgrade?
i must say the new panasonic bdp50 does sound like its going to be the one for many with being able to decode dtshd master and output via the analogues.......just wandering what kind of price tag is going to be attatched to something like that.
i also thought that the denon would decode dtshd master onboard and output via 7.1 analogue but another member seems to think that isnt the case.
best regards
nick.
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
hi!!!
tausifs how did you find the sharp.....just wandering as it sounds like you are looking to upgrade?
i must say the new panasonic bdp50 does sound like its going to be the one for many with being able to decode dtshd master and output via the analogues.......just wandering what kind of price tag is going to be attatched to something like that.
i also thought that the denon would decode dtshd master onboard and output via 7.1 analogue but another member seems to think that isnt the case.
best regards
nick.

hi nick,

the sharp is reasonably good with analogs but only after the fw update. it doesn't beat my hd-a1 hddvd player though, the latter with its 2.0 fw was better than the latest 2.4 fw and better than 2.2, imo and i reverted to fw2.0 because of this.

my point of reference is playing the U2 vertigo dvd on dts. the toshiba a1 absolutely rocks and i am addicted to the sound on the tosh when it plays, it drives my wife mad !

my logic is that if the player can do dts well then it should do the hd sound formats similarly well. and if the system sounds musical then it would be good for movies too, but the converse isn't always true imo.

i am thinking ahead however, for a bluray player but i am in no hurry at all to upgrade, just testing consensus opinion if there is one.

but how on earth can you audition bluray players in your own home with the kit and cables you like ? the higher end gear is serious money to chance it, and it may not sound right in your own particular setup. it used to be easier with separates.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
The Sharp HP20 is only £250 - that's very appealing to me.

I already have a PS3 which will be 2.0 (eventually) and I only ever watch those extras on my plasma - I'm not going to fire up my projector for PinP.

So the Sharp will do for great BD viewing (and listening) in my cinema room, and use the PS3 in my living room for extras.

I presume that neither the Sharp or Panny can decode DTSMA (and never will be able to)?

Steve W
 

Scott_Mac

Distinguished Member
I'm interested to know (for clarification) as i'm looking at the Sharp too - will be a great match for my TV!

Can it decode the HD soundtracks internally in the player and pass them via the analogue outputs to the amp (in much the same way the EP35 can) as my AV processor is old but does have 5.1 inputs... i see no reason to change it if i can get the player to do the decoding.

I have little interest in PiP etc so i assume a Profile 1.0 player will also be fine for me?
 

theo cupier

Active Member
The Sharp will unzip Uncompressed PCM for analog inputs and decode TrueHD for analog too, so far as I can tell.

Bear in mind that TrueHD is not so much of a big feature in Bluray land as it is in HD DVD land - films seem to have PCM soundtracks instead of TrueHD, which is in 3rd place behind PCM and DTSMA here.

The Sharp won't decode DTSMA at all, by the way.

The final thing - so far as I can tell with profiles - is that it has NO ethernet connection at all, so firmware updates is by disk only. This also means that interactivity and other features in Profile 2 are not just a matter of upgrading the firmware, it's simply not got the hardware to deal with it.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
As neither of these players decodes DTSMA, what do they do with a DTSMA 7.1 soundtrack?

If they use the 'core', is this dts 1.5mbps?

If so, is it still 7.1, or 6.1 discrete, or 6.1 matrix?

Also, is there facility with 5.1 discs to create 6.1 (as there is with most 6.1 amps), or are your centre rears always left silent with 5.1 discs?

Cheers.

Steve W
 

Event Horizon

Well-known Member
hi nick,

the sharp is reasonably good with analogs but only after the fw update. it doesn't beat my hd-a1 hddvd player though, the latter with its 2.0 fw was better than the latest 2.4 fw and better than 2.2, imo and i reverted to fw2.0 because of this.

my point of reference is playing the U2 vertigo dvd on dts. the toshiba a1 absolutely rocks and i am addicted to the sound on the tosh when it plays, it drives my wife mad !

my logic is that if the player can do dts well then it should do the hd sound formats similarly well. and if the system sounds musical then it would be good for movies too, but the converse isn't always true imo.

i am thinking ahead however, for a bluray player but i am in no hurry at all to upgrade, just testing consensus opinion if there is one.

but how on earth can you audition bluray players in your own home with the kit and cables you like ? the higher end gear is serious money to chance it, and it may not sound right in your own particular setup. it used to be easier with separates.

hi!!
while i am not at all familiar with hd dvd i do find that an earlier fwu is better than a recent one a bit bizare, proof is indeed in the listening though.( i wonder why this is)
it seems like you made a good choice with the sharp, i may have to look into that model myself, as there seems like there is nothing for definate if at all on the horizon that will decode all the latest lossless codecs.
i like the idea of 7.1 analogue outs compared to the 5.1 on the bdps300 that i have . and there does appear to be alot of titles with 7.1 pcm at the moment.
interesting point made by pecker about dts core.
best regards
nick.
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
hi!!
while i am not at all familiar with hd dvd i do find that an earlier fwu is better than a recent one a bit bizare, proof is indeed in the listening though.( i wonder why this is)
it seems like you made a good choice with the sharp, i may have to look into that model myself, as there seems like there is nothing for definate if at all on the horizon that will decode all the latest lossless codecs.
i like the idea of 7.1 analogue outs compared to the 5.1 on the bdps300 that i have . and there does appear to be alot of titles with 7.1 pcm at the moment.
interesting point made by pecker about dts core.
best regards
nick.

... and the Sharp does 1080p24 too ! That nudged me over into getting it, well that and the fact that it puts uncompressed LPCM, and TrueHD over 7.1 analogs AND anecdotally (on forums) had very few incompatibilty issues with BD discs ie. trouble free viewing, at least for current releases.
 

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