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Best £600 projector?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by rich.steed, Feb 8, 2005.

  1. rich.steed

    rich.steed
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    Hi guys, new to this projector lark so could use a bit of help. Looking to spend £600 on a home cinema projector. Have narrowed it down (with help from the dvdforums guys) to a choice between the:

    Epson Tw10h

    or

    Infocus X1

    Don't know much about rainbows or the like - use LCD at school but not really for watching films.

    Any advice would be appreciated,

    Rich
     
  2. cyberheater

    cyberheater
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    or BenQ PB6100 which can be had for less then 600 quid.
     
  3. binbag

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    How big is your viewing area?
    How far will you be sitting from the screen?
    Can you darken the room?
    What screen are you planning to use?
    What will you mostly be watching?

    Simple questions that'll help qualify the right projector in your budget - and a DLP viewing is a pre buy must to guage your reaction to the rainbow effect.
     
  4. rich.steed

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    well the room isn't massive probably about a distance of 3m to project.
    will be sitting about 2m away
    Can darken it pretty well,
    no idea of screen yet - was going to try it on a white wall first,
    mostly watching DVDs not much telly and the occassional game


    does that help?

    Rich
     
  5. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    At 2m seating distance, you could be seeing pixel structure (screendoor) on an image that's any larger than 1m wide, especialy an LCD pj or an 800 x 600 DLP. If you want something larger, you'll need to be able to sit further away if you can.

    A rule of thumb for seating distance is to sit two times the screen width away. 1.85 I would say is a minimum distance before SD starts to become obvious, and 1.5 where it's visible all the time. You will have to demo ans stand that far away from the screen (whatever size it is) and see what it looks like. So if it's on a 6ft wide screen, you'll need to stand 9ft away, then move back till the SD stops being visible.

    You'll need to make sure the pj can actualy project an image large enough from 3m away too.

    Gary.
     
  6. ismangil

    ismangil
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    We have an Infocus X1, and it is true at 2m you would probably notice the pixels. We sit just below the projector at about 3m or so, great image. At 3m distance X1 maximum image fills 65" diagonal screen, we use DRH slimline manual, the smallest one (145 x 81 cm at 16:9 ratio).

    We don't suffer from rainbows so no complains.
     
  7. ismangil

    ismangil
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    The advantage of X1 over PB6100 is the Faroudja deinterlacer, useful if you want to send interlaced component video signal.

    Having said that, we ended up using progressive component input from the DVD player so in fact did not utilise the deinterlacer. The interlaced component input on X1 is much harder to use due to special 7-pin S-Video type connector that it needs.
     
  8. BravOllie

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    I'm in a similar situation to rich.steed here. I'm also after a £600 machine but am pretty sure of wanting a DLP jobby. I haven't experienced DLP i will add!

    Now the main difference in my situation is i'll be sitting 3.5m away from screen and restricted to a horizontal screen size of 1.4m wide due to room shape. My room is actually 6.5x3.5m wide and will be projecting onto the end 3.5m wide wall.

    Like Rich.Steed here the way i see it is we're restricted to two alternatives. We either...

    1) Go the DLP route and benefit from both high Lumen output and contrast ratio but then restricted to native 4:3. (PJ's like the BenQ PB6100,6110,6200, Infocus X1 or X2)
    or
    2) Go the LCD route and benefit from a native 16:9 widescreen aspect ratio but suffer in the way of lower lumen output and contrast ratio. (PJ's like the Epson TW10)

    Also a concern of mine which i'm sure rich.steed will find beneficial is i've played with 4:3 LCD PJ's and they're absolutely fine, 4:3 looks fantastic however come to switching to and watching films in 16:9 there is quite a large proportian of the screen taken up by the black bars both top and bottom. Now my opinion is that because 99% of my media being projected is going to be widescreen i would benefit from a native 16:9 machine. However like mensioned above there are consiquences!

    I've also been speaking to many projector companies like Projector Centre, Projector Central etc and they have all said that they would prefer to have a native 4:3 PJ purely to benefit from the higher brightness and contrast ratio.

    What do all you fanatics here think to this???

    I appologise for the large thread but i feel it contains important info to help both myself and rich.steed here.

    Appologies rich.steed, i have no intention of taking over your thread, i simply hoped to bring up some issues which i felt are essential for you to consider. :smashin:

    Ollie
     
  9. roadrash

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    I have a pb6100 for sale 3 weeks old i have found that there is no other way than lcd for me as i didnt realise NYSTAGMUS which is what i was diagnosed with a few years ago would accelerate the rainbow effect and i just cant watch anything ,well if anyones interested its all still in the box with about 15 hours used and still as new with all leads and software that comes with it , Looking for £500 .
    you can email me at phil.gwynne@lycos.co.uk
     
  10. avanzato

    avanzato
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    Not really up on modern PJ's but is the BenQ PE5120 any good? I've seen it at £690 which is over budget but it's native widescreen and supposed to be HDCP compatible via the DVI input.
     
  11. BravOllie

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    Yes, again i haven't seen one in action but it is just 1100 Lumens.

    Although!! Boasts 2000:1 contrast and native 16:9.

    Correct, not bad at all!

    May look into that more myself

    Ollie
     
  12. Craig

    Craig
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    Glad you wrote that; I also have nystagmus, so I am now 100% not going for a DLP pj !

    Cheers
     
  13. MikeRJ

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    1100 Lumens is plenty unless you want a stupidly sized screen. Don't compare data projectors with home cinema projectors, the former need lots of brightness to work in rooms with little or no light control. Contrast is the more important factor.
     
  14. ismangil

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    You have to check the projection distance calculators for each specific model. For example with Infocus X1, if you have to position the PJ at 3.5m, then there is no way to get an image 1.4m wide, because at 3.2m (my current PJ position) it is already 1.6m wide.

    I have no problems with a native 4:3 machine (X1), because I project it to a 16:9 screen so it fits inside the black borders. There is a faint light spill though, mostly visible at the bottom of the screen because it goes beyond the screen to the wall. At the top of the image the light spill is not visible because of the large black border required for 16:9 anyway.

    After a few hours I find I can ignore the light spill end concentrate on the 65" image (why anyone would want a 42" plasma or worse 32" LCD panel at many times the price is beyond me).
     
  15. zoolap

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    well... you don't have to worry about the bulb wearing out - though plasma the screenburn thing though. Infact the bulb thing is kinda making me have second thoughts about projection.
     
  16. BravOllie

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    Cheers ismangil,

    Some valid points there, thank you.

    I personally am not restricted to wear i hang my projector in regard to throw distance. However do you agree with my point when i say..

    Because i am restricted to a maximum width of 1.4m horizontally, it would be beneficial to have a permanent widescreen machine

    Here are two attachments (PDF Images) of what the end wall of my room would look like in both situations...

    Comments please.

    Bearing in mind still that multimedia projectors are around £100 cheaper based on a £700 native 16:9 Home Cinema machine

    Thank You.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. nickauk

    nickauk
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    In a similar position:

    Just been offered a sony cs6, 1800 ansi with 700hrs on the lamp for just under £400.

    Looking for some advice- should I spend a bit more and go for a new tw10h, x1 etc (haven't seen whether i suffer from rainbow effect yet) or go for something like the sony (it's a 4:3). Going to be using it in a fairly big room, but without a screen (projecting from around 3.5m away)
     
  18. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I have an Epson TW-10H, a homemade 6ft 16:9 screen (wooden frame & blackout material) and I sit around 8 ft from the screen. The PJ is superb, great picture for a £550 PJ and I hardly get any screen door at all. The PJ is about 9 1/2 ft from the screen. Other plus points for this PJ are decent brightness and cheap bulbs at only around £140 a pop. You should also get about 3000-4000 hours from a bulb if you run the PJ in Theatre Black mode (which I always do). Basically I wanted a pretty cheap, no nonsense PJ that would give me big screen action for games & Films, that provided a decent picture. As Digital Hi Def is still very much in it's infancy and not likely to really take off for another few years or so DVI or HDMI connections were not important to me at this time.

    I also felt that if I went for a DLP machine in this price range there would be a big risk of Rainbows. Whilst some of the very expensive 3 chip DLP's with fast colour wheels minimise this effect, that is not going to be the case on a sub £1000 PJ. That was my thought after reading a fair bit on here and elsewhere. Quite a few mates come round for gaming sesh's on the PJ so even if I was lucky and was not affected by Rainbows some of my mates may not have been as lucky. The "I can't play on your projecter thing, it makes me feel sick" comments would then have come out & I wouldn't be able to use the machine for one of the main things I bought it for.
     
  19. BravOllie

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    Good point gthom3, and although i won't be having mates play any game consoles on mine i'll still be having mates round watching films.

    Like yourself i've read, well, lost count now how many posts about which one to go for and i'd say it's 50/50 on which one to go for.

    Getting quite tired of looking now so this week i think i'll be treating myself to a nice BenQ PB6200 or PB6110. Not decided yet!

    Cheers.

    Keep the comments coming

    Ollie
     
  20. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    Yeah at the end of the day BravOllie I think you just have to take the plunge and go for one. I guess all budget PJ's will have their faults and it's just a matter of going for one that suits you the best. The high end LCD machines have great contrast with superb black levels and a high resolution that virtually eliminates screendoor. High end DLP's have 3 chips & fast colour wheels which provide a great image and vastly reduce the possibility of people seing RBE. You'll probably find though that a lot of these problems can seem a lot worse on here than they really are and i'm sure you'll love whatever PJ you go for. I know that even after a month i'm still well impressed by my Epson whenever I turn it on. :thumbsup:
     
  21. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    3 chip DLPs don't have colour wheels (like LCDs), but all single chippers do.

    Gary.
     
  22. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    So does that mean that 3 chip DLP's are completely free of RBE? If I understand it correctly the RBE occurs due the to colour sequencing caused by the 1 chippers usage of the colour wheel. If the light is split so that there is a separate DMD chip for each RGB colour and the colours are then displayed simultaneously then I can't see how RBE could ever be a problem with 3 chippers. Essentially (apart from the way the RGB is derived) they work in a very similar way to LCD's the way I see it. They should therefore have all of the advantages of DLP (less Screen door, better contrast, longer bulb length, true digital format) as well as losing the only real (but often major) disadvantage, RBE.
     
  23. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    That's about the size of it gthom3. The very eearly 3 chippers modulated the individual DMDs and a few people thought they saw something like rainbows, but the newer ones seem to have completely eliminated RBE. It's a pity they're so expensive and large though.

    Gary.
     
  24. zoolap

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    This is my primary argument against dlp. I've seen one or two dlps and they gave a great picture and I can believe the picture is superior to lcd. I haven't seen rainbows other than on a rear pro dlp, but that was only by forcing it (exaggerated eye movement). The possibility of friends being affected by rainbows or eye strain is not one I'm willing to take. Especially seeing as it varies from person to person.
     
  25. ismangil

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    Good point. The Infocus X1 lamp is rated at 4,000 hrs. Over the last two months or so I have clocked up 141 hrs, so that's around 70 hrs per month. Best case is that the lamp really last that long so that's around 57 months, almost 5 years. At which time I can choose to fork out £250 for a new lamp, or consider that £600 over 5 years was good value, and buy a new projector instead! :D
     

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