BESTÅ both worlds... family lounge meets home cinema

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Partly in homage to another thread with a similar name (you know who you are!), and partly in homage to my love of flatpack furniture from Småland, I'm starting this thread to chronicle my further adventures in home theatre as I try and improve on what I've got at the moment. I've got lots of ideas but keep getting sidetracked; hopefully this thread will spur me on a little.

I've presently got a modest setup built around IKEA BESTÅ furniture. The room is a nice size (21ft x 15ft, minus a stairwell) but awkward as the house is "upside down" - garage downstairs, bedrooms in the middle floor and open plan lounge / kitchen / diner. Half the room is kitchen / dining area, and half lounge. It is a working family lounge with kids present all the time, and my Spanish heritage makes me averse to having anything other than white on the walls, so I work within those constraints.

I built a large wall of IKEA BESTÅ across the whole room, and as the years have come and gone I've extended, chopped and changed it, swapped doors, etc, until we are where we are now; a large wall of SELSVIKEN doors with push touch openers; surrounding a Draper ReAct3 fixed Veltex Framevision Light screen which I cover during the day with a blind, and an offset Sony 32" Picture Frame TV set. Sounds while projecting are courtesy of XTZ Spirit 6 / Atmosphere S2 / BK XLS200DF sub via a Denon AVR-X2300W receiver. Projection from a JVC DLA-X30W with a Lumagen 2143 processor.

DSC_3561.JPG
_20171003_210612.JPG
DSC_3558.JPG


My main annoyances with the room at the moment are:
  • TV can't really benefit from the nice sounds because the distance between speakers and screen is very annoying
  • The screen was very cheap but is both small (1.6m wide) and a funny aspect (16:10). I'd really like a larger 2.35:1 as my passion is film.
  • The BESTÅ cabinets are lovely but shallow, which constrains choice of electronics (I really want Atmos 5.2.4, which are all a bit too deep)
  • The speakers sound good but are a bit "boxed in" by the cabinets around them.
My proposed solutions to the above are:
  • Get the TV onto a lift coming out of the cabinet below, in front of the screen.
  • Lose a row of tall cupboards and get a 1.9m - 2m wide 2.35:1 ReAct3 screen - fixed again as I love the Veltex and the casings and tab mechs mean losing too much screen with electric
  • Change the BESTÅ cabinet frames for the IKEA kid's bedroom furniture range STUVA cabinets. These gain an extra 10cm in depth and accept the same doors and hinges.
  • Get the LR either side of the screen, and the centre either above or below the screen.
This would probably come together as follows (quick Sketchup):

Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 14.03.25.png


The centre 3 units under the screen will be half depth (to take blurays etc), with the TV lift mechanism built into the space behind. See following with the worktop and doors removed:

Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 14.03.48.png


Anyway, that's quite enough for now; I'll reserve the next post for kit list and results when it gets done! :).
 
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jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Reserved for results, kit list etc.

Current Kit List
XTZ Spirit 6 LCR speakers
XTZ Atmosphere S2 Atmos front height and rear surround
BK Electronics XLS-200DF subwoofer
Euroscreen ReAct3 VelTex 16:10 160x100cm fixed frame ALR screen
Lumagen 2143 3DLUT video processor
Denon AVR-X2300W AV Receiver
Sony UBP-X800 UHD player connected to HDFury Linker
AppleTV4 and Humax Youview and Freesat boxes
Sony KDL-32E4020 "Picture Frame" TV

Kit Wishlist
Euroscreen ReAct VelTex 2.35:1 1.9-2m wide fixed frame ALR screen
TV lift to fit in 640mm height
Nice looking ~40" TV (maybe Samsung Serif 40"?)
Extra pair of XTZ Atmosphere S2s for .4 Atmos.
5.2.4 receiver (maybe Marantz SR7011, Denon AVR-X4300)
Lots of IKEA STUVA carcasses (3 x 192x50cm, 3x 64x50cm, 1x128x50cm, 3x 64x30cm)

Suppliers of Note
Speakers from @Jag @ Epic Home Cinema / XTZ UK - Epic Home Cinema - Home Cinema Retail and Installations / XTZ Sound In Balance - High-End Speakers & Electronics
Lumagen processor from @Gordon @ Convergent AV - Convergent AV - Audio, Visual, Consultancy and Sales, Surrey, UK
Sub from BK Electronics - B.K. Electronics Homepage
 
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Jag of the Bailey

Distinguished Member
This looks exciting! The room looks ace. I think you’ll really see the benefit of going scope plus allowing more separation between your L and R. Dispersion on the Spirit 6 is immense as are the potential sound pressure levels for cinema but you’ll really benefit from a more cinematic look by going scope.

If possible, I’d think about getting the centre underneath the screen rather than above it. This will certainly be the preferred option since you are running Atmos and want a clear divide between the base layer and heights.

If it’s an option, you could consider an at screen with a larger velvet frame around the image to maximise on perceived contrast. The ideal is however an ambient light rejecting screen.

Jag
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Sorry if you have already mentioned this... but could you move the screen to the centre of the wall and build the cupboards around it rather than just on the right?
The room is open plan kitchen diner lounge. The sofa is directly in-front of the screen as drawn, and the dining table / kitchen is in front of the unbroken cupboards section.

Ironically, the kitchen corner of the room is really dark! At least it helps with reflections. When we moved in to the house it had tired old black 80's kitchen, but we liked the contrast so stuck with it when we renovated the upstairs.

kitchen 001.jpg
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
This looks exciting! The room looks ace. I think you’ll really see the benefit of going scope plus allowing more separation between your L and R. Dispersion on the Spirit 6 is immense as are the potential sound pressure levels for cinema but you’ll really benefit from a more cinematic look by going scope.

If possible, I’d think about getting the centre underneath the screen rather than above it. This will certainly be the preferred option since you are running Atmos and want a clear divide between the base layer and heights.

If it’s an option, you could consider an at screen with a larger velvet frame around the image to maximise on perceived contrast. The ideal is however an ambient light rejecting screen.
Thanks Jag. I'm open minded about the centre. I've toyed with the idea of it above and below. If below I'd use a shorter 38cm door below it and build a custom white clothe grille to go above and hide the centre Spirit 6. I'm going to see a fellow members setup this week who has centre above, as I hear good things about it.

I do have concerns about it above being close to the Atmos speakers... plan is for the S2s at the front and rear wall to be high up on the wall (ceiling level) angled down. I'm screwed for side walls as the lounge area is open to the room, but I can get two surrounds down at ear level too, behind the MLP (ish). The surrounds are there at the moment as I only have a 5.2.1 setup currently. Like everything in the room, it is all a bit compromised in places.

I plan on going for ReAct3 again unless I get anywhere with an AT ALR screen that works. I quite like the look of the thicker Frame Vision frame (10cm instead of 5cm for Frame Vision Light) - the black velvet border I think helps in this compromised room to frame the image and appears to enhance the contrast (optical illusion, but nice nonetheless).

This was an earlier drawing with the centre below, hidden behind a custom grille. In a way I prefer this, but I'd like to try and get the best performance out of what I've got. Maybe I need to do some experiments in the room.

Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 22.59.51.png
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Ah right, looks like you have used the space well.

Have you considered a garage conversion?

I keep thinking about the garage. But I'm a geek, and when my last firm shut down I picked up most of the lab gear. I'm the only person I know with an ESD safe garage with a small thermal chamber...! Can't face giving it all up.

Plus; I know lots of people on here have really good garage conversions; but for me if I put in all that effort to do a really good garage build I'd want it to be a bit bigger than the garage could allow. I'd really want to accommodate 5 people; I drew it up and it just looks too cramped.

Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 23.18.28.png


On balance, for now my preference is to have a really nice lounge based setup and put the effort for a dedicated cinema into another house if that ever happens. @Jag @ Epic Home Cinema has really ruined me by showing me his Doghouse Cinema.
 
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adam-burnley

Distinguished Member
I know lots of people on here have really good garage conversions; but for me if I put in all that effort to do a really good garage build I'd want it to be a bit bigger than the garage could allow. I'd really want to accommodate 5 people; I drew it up and it just looks too cramped.

View attachment 927586

Fair enough... what size room did you work out though? I've just started my room in what was a garage 7 years ago, and I can fit 5 seats in a 2.5m x 5.2m space, just. I decided the XTZ Cinema Series would be wasted in my living room, so had to build a room just for them ;)

I get what you are saying though, and I'd love my room to be at least 1m wider and maybe a little longer, but I won't be moving anytime soon so it is what it is.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Fair enough... what size room did you work out though? I've just started my room in what was a garage 7 years ago, and I can fit 5 seats in a 2.5m x 5.2m space, just. I decided the XTZ Cinema Series would be wasted in my living room, so had to build a room just for them ;)

I get what you are saying though, and I'd love my room to be at least 1m wider and maybe a little longer, but I won't be moving anytime soon so it is what it is.

Nice! Similar size garage - mine is 2.6x5m wall to wall. But the boiler is at the back and I'd like to keep at a minimum a small amount of storage at the front, so by the time you add the soundproofing it ends up not much at all.

Other factors are that the costs are radically different - just 5 nice chairs will probably cost me almost as much as this entire build (ish). My lounge already has a ducted AC system as it was a hot hell hole in summers so it is a lovely place to be, even with PJ running. And the wife wants a spare room, so you can bet if I go near the garage I'll get hijacked into spending months turning it into something else (and lose my workshop!).
 

wl1

Well-known Member
I think you could look to go AT Screen across Left Right and Centre, maximising the space for screen size, and hiding the speakers too. Having no visual cues during movie watching really helps with the immersive nature.....

I built my own frame, using Seymour products - from here.
Seymour AV | Center Stage screens

Best of luck with your build. [emoji16]
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
I think you could look to go AT Screen across Left Right and Centre, maximising the space for screen size, and hiding the speakers too. Having no visual cues during movie watching really helps with the immersive nature.....
Thanks :) I'm really quite torn after attending @Jag @ Epic Home Cinema 's recent event between an AT screen and another Draper ReAct, but the Draper ReAct currently wins.

My logic at the moment is that I've had a plain white "screen" (ok, roller blind and wall) in the room and to be honest it is a bit "meh" due to all the room reflection from the plain white decor, leaving me with grey blacks and washed out mid brightness scenes. The ReAct surface is so much better - it is is a night and day difference for me. I can live with the speakers where they are at the moment (just about), so just getting them in a bit of free space either side of the screen will already be quite an upgrade. But to sink a load of effort and money into a screen and end up with a worse image is something I can't quite square.

Now if I could get an AT screen with good ALR capabilities (or maybe just a low-gain grey AT surface and a brighter projector upgrade) then that would be really interesting. An added complication is that the viewing distance to screen is only about 7ft. Things like the Draper TechVision Nanoperf ALR +AT have a recommended minimum of 10ft to eyeballs.

I have ordered a couple of different grey Spandex like materials just to have a play with and see if anything could work given a bright enough PJ, but I don't currently hold out much hope. I'd really welcome input from anyone who's managed to do an AT screen in a bright white room with good results.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Funny; I was going to suggest going for a grey spandex as it's a cheap option if it doesn't work out.

I don't think you tend to get many ALR/AT screens as generally AT screens are installed in dedicated rooms, where matt white works well. I know what you mean about wash out though; my first screen was a Greywolf one which had a rough texture, so I replaced it with a matt white 2.35:1 screen. This was a custom made screen and while I was disappointed with the wash out it was too expensive to do anything about, so I lived with it for years until I redid my room last year.

My AT screen washes out easily, but I've since added pull out Devore side curtains (and have something similar planed for the ceiling). It made a huge difference to the PQ the first time I pulled out the side curtains, but if you can't do that, then ALR is the next best thing.

I'm a fan of Besta too as part of my TV cabinet uses them. :smashin:
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Funny; I was going to suggest going for a grey spandex as it's a cheap option if it doesn't work out.
I figure I'm going to be projecting so small (1.9-2m wide) that even if the gain is really low it might work with one of the newer, brighter JVC units. I'll see when these samples arrive. It was cheap enough for a couple of metres of two different greys. Need to have a look over at AVS too, see what people have done there.
I don't think you tend to get many ALR/AT screens as generally AT screens are installed in dedicated rooms, where matt white works well. I know what you mean about wash out though; my first screen was a Greywolf one which had a rough texture, so I replaced it with a matt white 2.35:1 screen. This was a custom made screen and while I was disappointed with the wash out it was too expensive to do anything about, so I lived with it for years until I redid my room last year.
Yes, I get that impression, and of course it makes sense for it to be a slightly odd combination of requirements. Don't get me wrong, ReAct isn't perfect (there is a slight shimmer visible at my seating distance, and a bit of falloff at angles) but I'm OK with those in exchange for the contrast and black levels. And it is kind of the devil I know now that I've had one.
My AT screen washes out easily, but I've since added pull out Devore side curtains (and have something similar planed for the ceiling). It made a huge difference to the PQ the first time I pulled out the side curtains, but if you can't do that, then ALR is the next best thing.

I'm a fan of Besta too as part of my TV cabinet uses them. :smashin:
I love your setup, and spent a long while dreaming up schemes for a curtain tent etc - but I don't have a single proper side wall in the room (one side is open to the kitchen / diner, the other is a 50degree ceiling) and everything I dreamt up was going to be both expensive and ultimately hideous.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
So what TV lifts have people used successfully? the retracted height needs to be less than 600mm or so to fit within the BESTA system comfortably - which rules out most of the Future Automation units that can accommodate 40" TVs (the budget probably also rules them out!)

I currently like the look of the TV Lifts TVL-650 (series 8).
TV Lift | Pop Up TV Cabinet | Hidden TV | TV Cabinets | TV Lift Mechanism | Concealed TV Cabinets | TV Lifts | Motorised TV Lift | Pneumatic TV Lifts | Electric TV Lifts | TV Cabinets | Discrete TV | Remote TV Cabinets | Hide my TV | TV Elevator | End of Bed TV | End of Bed Cabinets
Particularly nice features look like the fact the end positions are set via remote control, the included remote is IR for easy integration, and the claimed low noise and smooth motion.

The Venset TS700B 7BXX1 also looks interesting:
http://www.venset.com/Product/?m=prodone&id=1105
Though the instructions for setting the stroke are far from user-friendly.

Really welcome any opinions on the mounts in the market.
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Pfff.....

I came to look at what 20 Grand gets you - haven't you spent it yet?:D

Come on, we're all waiting!!!

IMG_1366.GIF



PS Congratulations!!!:clap:
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Come on, we're all waiting!!!

Thanks :) Still buzzing today. And probably the rest of the year. And next.

I'm pretty conflicted internally to be honest; I've always been really quite careful with money on my home AV (while appreciating the finer things) - it actually doesn't feel quite right to me to be considering this year's top-notch gear - not that I'm complaining, mind. I've officially joined the "high class problem" club.

I'm not sure the spirit of the build will change that much as yet; though again I'm finding it difficult to see past what I was going to do pre-win as I had the plan pretty solid in my mind.

And as the wife said to me yesterday... "Well, love, at least you can give the joint account a rest now..."
 

furryhobnob

Distinguished Member
Thanks :) Still buzzing today. And probably the rest of the year. And next.

I'm pretty conflicted internally to be honest; I've always been really quite careful with money on my home AV (while appreciating the finer things) - it actually doesn't feel quite right to me to be considering this year's top-notch gear - not that I'm complaining, mind. I've officially joined the "high class problem" club.

I'm not sure the spirit of the build will change that much as yet; though again I'm finding it difficult to see past what I was going to do pre-win as I had the plan pretty solid in my mind.

And as the wife said to me yesterday... "Well, love, at least you can give the joint account a rest now..."
Joint account a rest? Tell her you'll still be spending from the joint account, with the £20k and joint account money, that means a better home cinema than just £20k on its own, women don't understand, congrats again pal
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
So what TV lifts have people used successfully? the retracted height needs to be less than 600mm or so to fit within the BESTA system comfortably - which rules out most of the Future Automation units that can accommodate 40" TVs (the budget probably also rules them out!)

The Venset TS700B 7BXX1 also looks interesting:
http://www.venset.com/Product/?m=prodone&id=1105
Though the instructions for setting the stroke are far from user-friendly.

Really welcome any opinions on the mounts in the market.

Just FYI I'm using a TS460B in my set up. However, the TV goes into the custom built section of my front wall which is higher than a Besta unit. I'm using a 50" TV which just goes below the top of the TV shelf when it is retracted. It all took quite a bit of working out and careful measuring to get it to fit.

I have the previous lift in my loft which is a shorter throw...it might be a TS700 but I can't recall. I found it was fairly easy to set the lift to stop at the right height; I just put a small piece of wood in place so that the microswitch is activated early before the TV went too low (my previous setup just had the TV go upwards to clear my centre speaker for projector viewing). Shame you are so far away as you'd be welcome to come round to have a look at the spare lift to get an idea of how it all works as I know they aren't cheap...my 760 was about £350 IIRC.
 

Russ 66

Distinguished Member
Wow congratulations! Are you limited to products they sell?
Are you going JVC X7900 or 9900 or LTD20? A Lumagen pro would be nice as well.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Wow congratulations! Are you limited to products they sell?
Are you going JVC X7900 or 9900 or LTD20? A Lumagen pro would be nice as well.

I'm just spending a little time figuring it out. X7900 (any more would be a crime in this room) and Lumagen Pro are at the top of my kit list at the moment. I can't really go loud in the room and I like the sound of the XTZs a lot so they're staying unless I have some mega brainwave with a modest AVR upgrade; whereas every day I can see where I could benefit from the better image quality of a better PJ.

If the Epson laser weren't so huge and black I'd be really tempted by that too; but I just don't think I can face it in this room. (X7900 is available in my favourite colour!).
 

Russ 66

Distinguished Member
I'm just spending a little time figuring it out. X7900 (any more would be a crime in this room) and Lumagen Pro are at the top of my kit list at the moment. I can't really go loud in the room and I like the sound of the XTZs a lot so they're staying unless I have some mega brainwave with a modest AVR upgrade; whereas every day I can see where I could benefit from the better image quality of a better PJ.

If the Epson laser weren't so huge and black I'd be really tempted by that too; but I just don't think I can face it in this room. (X7900 is available in my favourite colour!).
Yeah the Epson is massive. I think the X7900 would be a good choice, that and the Lumagen is half the money gone!
If you are going for an acoustically transparent screen you could go for some nice in wall speakers. I really like systems where all the kit is hidden away.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Would be nice, though I've still not found any ALR AT screens suitable for close viewing and I'm not wanting to sacrifice contrast to get AT.
 

jfinnie

Distinguished Member
Ah right, looks like you have used the space well.

Have you considered a garage conversion?
Thanks to that man for reminding me at a surprisingly timely point about previous thoughts for a garage conversion!

This thread is coming to a slightly untimely close; the unbelievable luck I had in winning the £20,000 home cinema raffle run by @MultiroomMedia has made me re-consider my options.

Putting some of my own money into moving the boiler and other sundries, instead of expanding the lounge setup, will gain us significant extra space for a garage build cinema, with the massive performance benefits it should bring over my capable (but ultimately compromised) lounge setup. This gets us an extra room in the house, which will be very welcome.

Once the garage build is complete I'll probably get rid of the projection setup in the lounge, keeping the XTZ Spirit setup there and installing a nice designer TV in place of the fixed screen. New thread will be coming, watch this space :)
 

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