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Benefits: What a scam

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by eviljohn2, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Sorry for pestering everyone about this but I need to vent some steam about this.

    It turns out that I'm not entitled to Jobseekers Allowance because I havn't paid enough National Insurance contributions over the tax years ending 5 April 2003 and 5 April 2004 whilst I was in full time education and I have over £3000 of savings.

    Most of you will know that up until this summer I have been in full-time education for all of my life up until this summer when I graduated. I also took an industrial placement year as the 3rd year of my 4 year degree course. This apparently means that I did make enough contributions in the tax year ending 5 April 2004 and I would have done in the tax year ending 2005 too.

    I've have worked since I was 16 around my full-time education (culminating in a physics degree for anyone that wants to suggest Mickey Mouse) and don't understand how I could have paid any additional national insurance over the course of my life unless I hadn't bothered going to University.

    Having established that I'm not entitled to that bit it also transpires that for every £250 above the £3000 allowance (the allowance is every single penny of capital that I own which I have carefully saved until now) I lose a pound of benefit until I reach the £8000 of savings mark at which point I'm not entitled to anything until I have run my own capital down first.

    I don't want to sponge off the state and am actively looking for work. I have been in full-time education until the age of 22. I was always under the impression that benefits such as this are for helping out those who find themselves in unfortunate situations temporarily but clearly honest people who have and will spend their lives paying national insurance to give a little help should the worst happen. Goes to show what I know though as far as the government is concerned I would have been better not going into further education or saving what money I've earnt until this point. :(

    In summary then;
    welfare state my arse. Honest working people who have planned for the future are entitled to nothing when they might need it.
     
  2. Toasty

    Toasty
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    Indeed, and the 3000 and 8000 pound figures you mention are the same as when I was looking for work back in the early 1990's! So much for inflation.
     
  3. Gary D

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    maybe you should be Polish?

    my old mum cant walk anymore, and she cant really wash herself anymore, she cant get the shops and is mostly house bound.

    she applied for invaliity benefit (which would get my step dad a motorbility car) however she is TOO mobile - but the heroin junky who i is married to a mate of mine get it? The Blockies i work in is in an area that is full of immigrants all of which carry mobiles better than mine and wear clothes that all look new - yet when they come to join there are providing benifit books and social letters as proof of address.

    my mum and step dad worked through all of thier lives and paid tax yet they are treated really badly by the welfare state. a welfare state that they werre told by the govenment would see them through from the cradle to the grave. disgraceful.


    Gary
     
  4. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
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    I concur. Have said it for a long time, but the Welfare state is in dire need of radical reform. Have seen everything in here and my 'frontline experience' allows me to truly state what a mess the 'system' is in.

    I am truly sorry for you John. Had I known that you had savings I could and would have advised you not to divulge it.

    I have nothing but distain for the Benefits infrastructure here now. 3 odd years ago, my mother was seriously ill with Breast Cancer. She had 15 months away from work, 4 operations and quite obviously a torrid time. Yet, she was not awarded Incapacity Benefit due to lack of national insurance as she worked 'only' 2.5 days a week for 20 odd years. The alternative means tested Income Support claim was pointless as my father worked full time and in the eyes of SS legislation he can support my Mum. (bull ****)

    Needless to say, when I worked on the counter at the social security before transferring to this office I saw kids no older than 18-19 getting long term incap awards for all sorts of ailments (mainly drug dependancy, alchohoism etc) that you knew were not really an issue because more often than not they laughed at you and winked as you handed over another couple of hundred quid....

    Two weeks to go though and I am never ever going to work in the welfare state again.......

    However, on a last aside there are people who need help here and now and get the support required. Also, there are people out there who are highly unemployable and will spend life on benefit living hand to mouth...

    In summary, quite frankly I have wasted seven years of my life dealing with other peoples ****. It has clearly contributed to my nervous breakdown. Every now again I did make a difference but not enough to keep doing it.

    Pete.
     
  5. overkill

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    The situation you described has been the same since 1985-6 (it happened to me back in 87). No NI contributions, no JS. Simple as that. The govt actually raised the savings limit to £3,000 a few years back. It was only £1,500 before that. :eek: They used to help with your mortage payments as well, but that, in the mid 90's, was changed to being only available, after, I think it's now 12 months. By which time of course you're out on your ear............

    The sad truth is, is that the welfare state is a piggy bank for the Middle classes - and the underclass.
     
  6. overkill

    overkill
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    Agreed. But whos going to do it? Neither main party has made any effort to alter the status Quo in 30 years.

    Ditto. And, if you were like me cap, I have done that very thing in the past...........

    There is something going on here cap. I referred umpteen fraud notices with regards false claims for DB. Yet nothing was ever done. Worse, the GPs, nine times out of ten, would back these ****heads claims! What can you do?

    Good point. What is sad is that there seems to be only a fag papers width between one and the other. Thats what needs to change.
     
  7. seany

    seany
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    Another thing is If your partner earns more then 15k a year you pretty much get 0.
     
  8. Gary D

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    Hiya Pete,

    what would you change? where is the biggest rot in system? the biggest scams? what would the british public really get annoyed about if we knew the truth?


    Gary
     
  9. sbowler

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    too much bending over backwards for others, we should look after our own. Its well known our benefits system is the envy of other countrys. Havent we the highest number of imigrants?
     
  10. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Not to worry mate, I do have some money to fall back on so it's not a big problem for me. Just feels like being thumped in the guts. Better to have nothing than get benefit fraudulently in my situation. :)
     
  11. mjn

    mjn
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    You've not really made sizable contribution though, so why expect to get anything out of it?

    But yes, all these immigrants should get nothing! Just as i was entitled to nothing when i moved over to Ireland. I had work lined up anyway, but if i had lost my job, i would have received nothing from the government.
     
  12. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
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    Good question....

    Well, without sounding zenophobic and racist I get frustrated by other the vast amount of other nations arrving in the UK. It is not the people as such just that as soon as they arrive the first concern is 'benefit' or 'give me money'

    For reference, I am talking about every nationality here, Spanish, French, Somali, Portugese, African...you name it. I am all for equality and a better life for everyone but please at least try and work for it. Spanish kids are encouraged to come to the UK and study and um....oh and claim job seekers!!!!!! Do you know anyone who has done this in reverse?

    I would have a three strikes and you are out on benefit fraud. No more benefit? Tough...get out there and earn it like the rest of us, or at least try.

    Ultimately, I would bring back National Service and try and instill some discipline, pride and decency back into people but thats another story.

    To summarise, the big problem is that the welfare state is still based on the honesty of the claimant, which is part of the problem as there are a lot of dishonest people out there.

    I suppose the irony here is that I am chipping off to Oz to test the water and maybe build a new life. However, I am going equipped with money, my CV and ambition to succeed.

    I will not get off my jumbo jet and ask Passport control -

    'g'day bluey, wheres the job centre mate?'.

    Pete.
     
  13. KoThreads

    KoThreads
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    Don't get me started Gary, my Mum and Dad are in the same boat. Myself, my brother and sister all subsidise what the f****** benefits system should do. They worked all their lives, As a kid, i'm mid 40's now we didn't have a bathroom just an outside bog, and they bought us up the best they could. They had NO spare money to save in the early seventies, and my Dad only got a small private pension built up just before he retired. Yet all the time they have applied for any state help the answer is no. I don't need to tell you what i think about the immigration laws/benefit system. I'd be hung. But what you see in Brum is typical down here. AND IT'S A JOKE. EJ2 SPEND YOUR DOSH!!
     
  14. stealther

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    Well done. :smashin: As apposed to every ****er who steps into this country and says where’s the benefit office? I am running low on mobile phone credit! :mad: :mad:

    And then asking the housing benefit people for an advance because there going to Spain on holiday. :eek: what the fudge. NO ONE on benefit has any right going away on holiday. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Gary D

    Gary D
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    Pete - thanks man all of what you say is right - christ i must be getting old i'm liking the national service idea :smashin:

    Idoexist - what really annoys me is that they were told by the govenment that they would be looked after and yet the govenment doesn't want to live upto that promise. they had no chance/reason for providing for themselves.

    I think it will make the country blow one day immigrants/benifits/chavs - the middle classes will get in their mondeo's and rise up.


    Gary
     
  16. overkill

    overkill
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    Yeah right, that'll work - not! Try living around bases to see how 'discipline' has zero effect on young thugs. They go in as thugs come out as better trained thugs. Personally, I'd prefer them not to be thugs at all but thugs trained to kill? Bloody great idea..... :rolleyes: Are we going to unclude girls (theres plenty of thuggetes out there), the bulk of young males and on that note are YOU willing to pay for it? Why do you think it was scrapped in the first place? Too expensive thats why.
     
  17. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
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    Good point. Did not think of that Overkill.

    Warminster is a nightmare of a place!!!! However, like everything, not all soldiers are thugs.

    Pete.
     
  18. pjclark1

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    When I were young, me and my entire family lived in a paper bag in the middle of the road ............

    Stop winging, if they give you summit, hooray money for nothing, if they don't, live with it and move on. I doubt anyone reading an AV forum is seriously in need of benefits (but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get anything going).
     
  19. dts_boy

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    a few years ago i was a student and had to have an operation which meant i had to take a year off uni. I needed constant medication over the year and i applied for free prescriptions - turned down. In the end and against doctors advice i took a part time job to cover the prescription costs, which when you're a student is crippling. The outcome of all this is i now have a permanent back complaint. The welfare and benefits were abused by everyone where i used to live - my neighbours had 2-4 holidays a year and had a car and also 3 pets - i have had 2 holidays since leaving uni (4years ago) only got a car when i graduated and no pets. This has turned into my own rant now, but like many others feel betrayed by the system which is meant to look after us when we need it. :mad:
     
  20. Jenn

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    I'd be curious to see if anyone has ever calculated if people (honest hard working people I mean) would be better off if the saved whatever tax they pay every month that's supposed to go for benefits in case you lose your job and National Insurance. Put that money in a high interest bank account and then if any job or health problem arises , you can use it.
     
  21. KoThreads

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    Why should the armed services get the dreggs of society?

    i am not, or have ever been, part of the armed services for anyone who might disagree.
     
  22. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Undoubtably but it isn't much of a "state system" then. I would respectfully point out to those over the age of 35-40, that at least they have a fighting chance of receiving some form of company or state pension. At 24 I have no chance of either :suicide:. Anyone who thinks that the system can survive even in its present form indefinately is delusional.
     
  23. Gary D

    Gary D
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    tons its all about political will dude and a public sector that is shockingly wasteful - if you really knew where your/my/our money goes you would riot.


    Gary
     
  24. stealther

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    Like paying idiots who fall of desks to stay at home? :)
     
  25. Jenn

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    At this moment in time I couldn't care less about a "state system". I won't go to hospital or use the NHS (unless it's the last resort) because having seen a few lately (visiting people) I'm scared I would catch something worse, it's simply disgusting.
    Also it seems if I lost my job I wouldn't get anything because my partner earns money and I have some savings - doesn't stop my paying contributions mind.
    And at 25 I don't even hope to have any pension when I retire (if I can).

    Ah well.. At least Gordon Brown will vaccinate Africans at £70 million / year, it's nice of him.
     
  26. Kopite4Ever

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    John i feel your pain im in the exact same situation as yourself. i to have some money to fall back on but its gradually decreasing and its a real kick in the balls to have no help from the state. its lucky my parents are right behind me and if im short on cash they will support me. its seems with stupidly high tutition fee's amoungst other things were is the incentive to stay in education for 20 years. i still am looking for a job after graduating in mid july :( even had the second thought of doing a masters as at first i didnt want to but i cant even go on to that because i cant afford it. will have to pay off the £13,000 i owe and then maybe go back to it in later life. mean while the scum of the earth are :censored: about doing nothing and getting the good peoples money, ie that idiotic woman from wife swap with the 15 kids or how ever many it is all called billy bob or some variation :mad:
     
  27. Gary D

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    yeah bloodly skiver's!! :D but believe me one lowly IT guy is NOTHING compered to what really happens


    Gary
     
  28. eviljohn2

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    Not necessarily sizeable but I've paid NI at every opportunity since I was 16 and have only asked for so-called Jobseekers Allowance, so named because it's not supposed to actually be a benefit. Just an allowance to help whilst looking for a job.

    If the system is based entirely on what you've already paid then why is it compulsory for those who work? Only to find that those who have worked and want to work aren't eligible whilst those who don't want to work are more entitled.
     
  29. overkill

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    I agree - in part. But why has it gone that way? Because some idiot in the early 90's privatised the cleaning sector of the NHS. Imagine a UK health system then all Private (mr Fox's dream)? It sounds fine apart from:-

    The private sectors cost are artifically low because they employ all their staff from NHS trainees! So, the biggest cost of all for Private medicine is borne by - us! Instead of the govt (although they have slashed it) giving tax breaks to the private medical sector they should be making them pay for their own staff, and cutting off public money from them at all! That way we might see some improvements in our NHS.

    However, the only reason the govt now cannot do so, is that medical insurance would then finally soar to US levels to pay for training costs. Meaning a flood of people leaving private medicine and an even greater burden the NHS.

    Once again we are paying for 80's shortsightedness and privitisation mania.
     
  30. pjclark1

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    eviljohn
    You need to pay NI on earnings of £4000 pa to be considered a full contributor.
    (only earnings over £340 in any one calander month count towards the £4000 total)
     

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