Being paid for training for new job?

[Saldawop]

My daughter is on her first days training today, she is (if she sticks it) going to be a carer ...part time(she is at college).
She has been told she will not be paid for this training, which is 09.00-17.30 for the next three days.

Now, personally I would have told them to stick it as soon as they said it would be unpaid purely because I would look at it as a piss take , but is it actually legal to expect someone to work for 3 days unpaid? I have read conflicting things, some saying it isn't and others not so sure?

 

[kav]

Does she have a contract of employment yet?

 

[Saldawop]

No

 

[kav]

Unfortunately I think she will struggle to claim any form of payment in that case. It sounds like this is simply a component of her college course and not something she should expect to be paid for.

I did a bit of volunteering at a hospital during my degree, I viewed it as a way of bolstering my CV due to having no real world experience at the time. I think she would need to view this similarly - she might not reap any financial rewards but it is likely to stand her in good stead in future.

 

[Saldawop]

No, it is nothing to do with college. She just wants a part time job for the money

 

[FIRETRAP18]

When I started my job at asda last year, we got paid on the first day which was induction day, watching videos and filling out questions. We were then paid while we were training on the shop floor aswell. Maybe it's different in different jobs.

 

[nickp1987]

Most likely different at every place of work but the wife is a carer and get paid for all training.

 

[reiteration]

it doesn't bode well for working for them if they're not paying for your training..?

 

[Cliff]

Not all companies will pay for training especially if you are starting off. They want you to be trained before they take you on. And if she will be working on contract, then she will just get paid for the time she works.
Might seem unfair but if she gets a job at the end of it then its worth a few days finding out how to do the job.
You can take some comfort in that she is not paying for the training!

 

[MIghtyG]

At least she wont need to pay to do the training, lot of jobs I have looked at would require me to go through about two grands worth of training, self funded, and thats to get an interview never mind the job....

If it wasnt agreed or queried up front then I think the ship has sailed, if she wants the job, experience and training record on her CV I would say three days sacrifice is well worth it.

To be honest in this day and age I would say getting some free training which will look great on a CV for any future job hunting and a guaranteed job at the end of it is a pretty sweet deal.

 

[NewfieDrool]

How do they get round not paying?? If you are sent on a training course and they count it as a work day but say you will not be paid how do they get round the min payment law?

When I was a carer I was paid for all training. Sorry but at the end of the day training be it required should be paid.

 

[nheather]

I can understand what people are saying and it is tough. But on the flip side, these days jobs are very hard to come by so investing 3 days to get one is not the end of the world.

Unfortunately, it is an employer's market at the moment.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[MIghtyG]

How do they get round not paying?? If you are sent on a training course and they count it as a work day but say you will not be paid how do they get round the min payment law?

When I was a carer I was paid for all training. Sorry but at the end of the day training be it required should be paid.

Will all depend on the contract they have gave out, could have some line in it along the lines of "employment is on the condition of completion of......." etc. etc.

How is the contract worded, is it an hourly rate or a salary based on X hours per week/month?

If its a salary something along the lines of "standard working hours will be ..... to ...... however, as needs of the business arise hours may be required outwith the normal working hours and will incur no additional compensation" Something I sadly have in my contract so no matter if I work 40 hours a week or 60 hours a week I make the same money.

 

[rousetafarian]

IIRC a contract of employment has to be, by law offered within 14 days of starting any job.

 

[NewfieDrool]

I don't think they do. If I read this correctly they don't have too supply one.
Employment contracts - GOV.UK

 

[rousetafarian]

Edit 2 months Acas - Contracts of employment

My point is, for the sake of the duration of the training period (and if it is what they want to passionately do) then a few days unpaid training is acceptable.

 

[Graham27]

This sort of thing is fairly common. As has been mentioned, some employers charge for training.

My missus is expected to 'add strings to her bow' by learning skills which will help her directly in work. She recently did a counselling course which was 10 evenings of her time and £350 out of her pocket.

If I was faced with the same thing I'd happily go along with it.

 

[alan280170]

I believe now, you should get paid, if they are giving her 3 days training, surely the minimum would be her expenses (travel and lunch).

 

[nheather]

Firstly we don't what the terms of the offer are - until we do we can't really comment.

Secondly, it is all very well being opinionated at your PC screens but would you actually do in her position.

1 - tell them to stuff the job
2 - demand payment otherwise she is going to ACAS
3 - tell them she is going to report them to the authorities

Any of those may leave her on the moral high ground but they will also leave her unemployed.

We all agree that she should get paid if her offer says she has started working for them on the first day of training.

Another example, my daughter has been a member of the Royal Life Saving Society for main years and has loads of their certificates. She wants to get a part time job as a life guard at the local leisure centre. They don't recognise the RLSS qualifications and insist on my daughter attending and passing one of their courses before she can even be considered for a job with them. So even though she is more highly qualified, she must do their basic course at a cost of £230. But there is no way around it, there is no arguing sense, she must pay up, do the course because without it they won't even interview her.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

[NewfieDrool]

The trouble with care work is that for most the pay is very low, long hours, hard work and when I did it very stressful.
The companies play on your good will, and yes they do get extra out of people as the majority do it as they genuinely care about people and want to make a difference.
The system needs a kick up the backside big time, the carers work hard but the system fails and wages should reflect what's done. None of this crap chasing a bag of wind for thousands of pounds.
What I could never work out is why on earth they pay employees low wages yet have to employ agency staff which cost around 3 times as much to fill the gaps. I've worked on nursing units where 16 residents have 4 carers and a nurse and I've been the only regular working on the unit, in fact after my induction of 21 hours my first shift I was with just agency and they say you are the leader. Bloody crazy!
If people knew what goes on and genuinely cared there would be an outcry.
I'm not one to sit and take rubbish from employers, I've had a tribunal with one company that I spent 13 years at and I approached the management at the care home about quality of care who then turned round and suggested I needed counselling as I had questioned the care given.
There are a lot of good carers paid peanuts but until people get some balls in this country the same old thing is going to happen.

 

[RBZ5416]

I have little to offer than anecdotal. One of the young girls that worked at my barber wanted to work in care. First thing was she was required to have an enhanced CRB & was expected to pay for this herself. She was then expected to attend the elderly in their own homes, often involving a 30-40 mile round trip for a couple of hours work. She wasn't paid travelling time or even petrol money. If she complained or declined her dedication was questioned. All this on a zero hours contract.

 

[Saldawop]

Personally, I would not do any training for no pay. That may mean I could not apply for certain jobs, so be it. I certainly wouldn't expect to be asked to worth for 3 full days for no pay BUT it sounds like it is legal? And my daughter is prepared to do it, and that is her call to make.

 

[unique]

My daughter is on her first days training today, she is (if she sticks it) going to be a carer ...part time(she is at college).
She has been told she will not be paid for this training, which is 09.00-17.30 for the next three days.

Now, personally I would have told them to stick it as soon as they said it would be unpaid purely because I would look at it as a pee take , but is it actually legal to expect someone to work for 3 days unpaid? I have read conflicting things, some saying it isn't and others not so sure?

bit in bold - yes of course
is it legal for someone to work 3 days unpaid - yes of course

however you haven't provided much info to give a better answer. I presume you want to know if it's legal for someone to go on a training course for 3 days and not be paid for it. the answer is also yes. but a lot depends on circumstance, and that's why you will find conflicting information

who asked her to go on the training course? an employer to whom she's an employee and has a contract of employment (if so what do the terms say)? a potential employer (and is there a job offer conditional to the training being completed first, and stating it's unpaid or otherwise etc)? college/school/uni ? the jobcentre? or has she simply found the training herself and has opted to do it?

if it's an employer and an employee and this training takes place during working hours then normally unless the contract states otherwise or she has signed to agree to something to state so, normally the employee would be entitled to normal payment as if they had worked. if you turn up to your job and instead of being asked to do the thing you normally do your boss presents someone in front of you to train you on health and safety all day then you would reasonably expect to be paid for it

but it sounds like your daughter is "at college" to quote you. you haven't said if she is employed anywhere or not. the college may have arranged training somewhere with a business, to which she won't be paid to attend, much in the same way as she wouldn't pay to attend college, but similarly she won't be charged for receiving the training. if I wanted to be trained in something I would normally have to engage the services of someone to provide that training to me, and in turn they would want to be paid for it. so it sounds like whilst she isn't be paid to attend the training, she isn't having to pay either, so she is getting free training, and that training has a value, and the outcome of that training may be that she could obtain a job as a result, so the value of the training could be considerable. if it's "training" it's not necessarily "work". also employment law mostly relates to "employees" and "employers" not "workers" or "trainees". if she isn't employed by the company, or any company, she's not an employee and the employment law won't relate to her, and the national minimum wage and working time regulations won't apply to her. so yes the can be trained and doesn't need to be paid for it. if you arranged driving lessons to be trained to drive a car you would normally reasonably expect to pay for the training, and not for the business to pay you to be trained