Before you buy your next "upgrade"...

avanzato

Active Member
Hi, In a few weeks time I'll be putting in loft insulation and likely to use sheep's wool.
If there's any material left over I'll be looking at making a couple of DIY acoustic panels for 1st reflection points and was wondering if anyone had experience of using sheep's wool - would this be an ok material? Not sure how much info is out there.
I made some panels from Sheep wool insulation about ten years ago and can confirm that it was a bit stinky, especially in humid weather. Not easy to cut but robust and very good to handle compared to mineral wool. Swapped it out for foam quite quickly.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
I've finally gotten around to installing panels either side of the screen - see poor quality phone pics. I recently downsized my screen - from 115" scope to 92" 16:9, which has allowed space for the black panels either side, which have the added benefit of reducing screen reflections from the wall.

Downsizing the screen was, unfortunately, necessary, as 115" scope over the throw distance I had required me to use an anamorphic lens, and over a short throw the lens produced a degree of pincushion that I got fed up with. In any event, I simply moved my chair forward, so the viewing angle's roughly the same, plus there's now more breathing room for my surround backs :smashin:

As I've posted about before, the screen wall's filled quite heavily with Rockwool, so that in itself does a fair amount to improve bass response and decay times. I've also just bought five metres of Camira fabric to make a one or two Soffit bass traps for the rear of the room. After that, I might have a stab at a ceiling panel...

Will re-run ARC then post graphs etc :D
 

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DLxP

Well-known Member
Found time today to quickly knock up a bass trap/remote table for the rear of the room. It's more or less done, although the seams need tidying up. Dimensions are (H, W, D) 50cm*40cm*40cm, and as you can see it was an absolute doddle to make. It's slightly less than half the height of the GIK soffit trap, but about the same width/depth. I managed to fit in about two 10cm deep mineral wool slabs, cut into segments. Hopefully it'll make a small improvement, building on what's already in place...

Tomorrow's job: soffit trap for the rear wall/side wall/ceiling trihedral corner. Once that's done every treatable corner will have traps in it, save those around the door which are impossible to treat. Then I'll run REW to see if it's made much difference to the measurements I posted earlier.
 

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number1jon

Active Member
Found time today to quickly knock up a bass trap/remote table for the rear of the room

Looks good mate. How come you went with the clingfilm/plastic wrap around the bass trap? will that not impede the airflow and the performance? Would you use the plastic on thinner sound absorption panels?
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Looks good mate. How come you went with the clingfilm/plastic wrap around the bass trap? will that not impede the airflow and the performance? Would you use the plastic on thinner sound absorption panels?
Hi mate. I used the cling film to limit the chance of the mineral wool bulging against the side material. It's only about one layer and not pulled taught. It shouldn't make any difference to performance, and definitely not to LF, which will pass through with ease.

There was a discussion about this earlier in the thread I think. There's also some debate about it on Gearslutz - don't have the link atm.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Soffit trap now done, and installed. 25cm*20cm*100cm. I measured it to fit between a shelf and the ceiling corner, so it was easy to install.

I still haven't gotten around to measuring on REW, although I have re-run ARC.

Installing the two panels either side of the screen, the rear bottom corner bass trap and the soffit trap caused a massive improvement in overall SQ. Imaging, bass clarity and punch are far better.

The most surprising thing is that the rears now sound more alive and integrated - my bet is that's down to reduced comb filtering. Most pleasingly, the bass from my two USC15s is now almost where I'd say it couldn't get much better. I went through all my go-to demo scenes, and each sounded better than I've ever heard it. The John Wick Red Circle scene (cliche alert) made my jaw drop.

To put this in context, in line with the spirit of the thread's subject, I've gone through the following pre pros (or AVRs used as such) in the past year or so: Marantz AV7702; Arcam AVR550; Marantz AV8802A; Anthem AVM60; and Anthem MRX720. I chopped and changed (without making much of a loss) in the quest for improvement. The AVM60 was the best but the MRX720 was more or less equal. The biggest leap was the move from Audyssey to ARC. I'd say these recent room treatments have now produced a bigger leap.

I still wouldn't say room treatments are the most important system upgrades - a good sub (ideally more than one) makes the biggest improvement in my view - but I'm now 100% sold on the idea that good room treatments make a bigger improvement than changes between electronics, and are far more wallet-friendly.:D
 

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silva741

Active Member
Looks good mate. How come you went with the clingfilm/plastic wrap around the bass trap? will that not impede the airflow and the performance? Would you use the plastic on thinner sound absorption panels?
I've also covered my bass traps with thin clingfilm, precisely for the same reason. Apparently, and as long as the plastic is very thin, there's almost no effect - check this thread, where I posted my doubts and thought process.
Broadband absorbers - healthy and efficient? - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community

I also planned to cover my broadband absorbers with the same plastic, but in the end decided not to do it, just to make sure I was having maximum performance from them. Instead, I bought several 20mm acoustic foam panels, which I placed between the fabric and the rockwool, and with that I created a barrier that doesn't allow the fibers to get airborne. It isn't completely perfect, because I'm sure that some fibers will get out through the back of the panel (which only has one layer of fabric, without any foam panel like I have on the front of the panel), but it should be much better than the traditional way.

It's extra work, but the cost is low and I didn't want to risk having fibers floating everywhere for years.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
One area of the room that isn't currently treated is the wall behind my seat, at ear height. I know the benefits of this (and it used to be treated), so would like to install a panel there.

However, my CS-29s fire up and to the side. So if I install a panel above or between them, the speakers will fire into the side of it.

What do people think is the best approach here?
 

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Lesmor

Distinguished Member
One area of the room that isn't currently treated is the wall behind my seat, at ear height. I know the benefits of this (and it used to be treated), so would like to install a panel there.

However, my CS-29s fire up and to the side. So if I install a panel above or between them, the speakers will fire into the side of it.

What do people think is the best approach here?
If you have distance between the MLP and back wall consider diffusion

As it is located in a corner I would also look to fix a absorber panel on the door
I fixed 2x 600x600 panels on mine using heavy duty 3M command velcro which can be removed cleanly in the future.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
If you have distance between the MLP and back wall consider diffusion

As it is located in a corner I would also look to fix a absorber panel on the door
I fixed 2x 600x600 panels on mine using heavy duty 3M command velcro which can be removed cleanly in the future.

I'd considered diffusion, although I'm only about 70-80cm from the rear wall; I was under the impression that's too close. It does seem a good option though, if possible - I'll have a read into it.

Great idea about the door. I was planning to add a panel or two there, although wasn't sure how to mount them without drilling into the door. Were your 600x600 panels made from MDF, and if so did the velcro happily support that?
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
I'd considered diffusion, although I'm only about 70-80cm from the rear wall; I was under the impression that's too close. It does seem a good option though, if possible - I'll have a read into it.

Great idea about the door. I was planning to add a panel or two there, although wasn't sure how to mount them without drilling into the door. Were your 600x600 panels made from MDF, and if so did the velcro happily support that?
You are correct 800 is too close for diffusion to work
Those surrounds need room to breath but perhaps you could still add some absorption to the rear wall

On my door I have 2 x GIK 242 panels supported with 3M heavy duty command hooks

You would need to weigh your panels and select the correct gauge of 3M to suit and perhaps also supplemented them with 3M velcro strips at each corner
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
You are correct 800 is too close for diffusion to work
Those surrounds need room to breath but perhaps you could still add some absorption to the rear wall

I ended up chancing a bass trap just above the CS-29s. It's a bit of a beast - 130cm*80cm*13cm.

As it's currently mounted, the CS-29s fire directly into the side of it, at right angles to ear height. I'm not sure whether this will be a good or a bad thing - I'll give it a try a bit later tonight. It's easily moved if it doesn't work ...
 

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Saul Goodman

Distinguished Member
You are correct 800 is too close for diffusion to work
Those surrounds need room to breath but perhaps you could still add some absorption to the rear wall

On my door I have 2 x GIK 242 panels supported with 3M heavy duty command hooks

You would need to weigh your panels and select the correct gauge of 3M to suit and perhaps also supplemented them with 3M velcro strips at each corner

Hi Andy :)

How much space is required behind MLP for effective diffusion? :)
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
I ended up chancing a bass trap just above the CS-29s. It's a bit of a beast - 130cm*80cm*13cm.

As it's currently mounted, the CS-29s fire directly into the side of it, at right angles to ear height. I'm not sure whether this will be a good or a bad thing - I'll give it a try a bit later tonight. It's easily moved if it doesn't work ...
Looking good that should make a big difference
Floor to ceiling Tri or soffit trap at the rear right corner and you should be done
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
Hi Andy :)

How much space is required behind MLP for effective diffusion? :)
Hi Drew
2 meters min for a Q7 should be fine my MLP is 2.3 meters
I bought 3 x QRD 734's from RPG
There is a formula depending on the frequencies you want to treat
The best resource I have found for acoustic treatment info is by Dennis Foley of Acoustic fields
A lot of good videos with the math to back the theory
Of course like others they have product to sell but it is a great educational resource.
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
A lot can be learned from watching his videos
@DougAP one large reflective area often neglected is the ceiling
If you cover the ceiling first reflection points for L/C/R with panels covered in dark (light rejecting material) it can also help your projector contrast
 

silva741

Active Member
A lot can be learned from watching his videos
@DougAP one large reflective area often neglected is the ceiling
If you cover the ceiling first reflection points for L/C/R with panels covered in dark (light rejecting material) it can also help your projector contrast
Indeed. Last week I built and placed a big ceiling cloud on my room, and the acoustics improved significantly. I had nasty echoes coming from the ceiling, and this cloud solved most of that issue.
 

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Lesmor

Distinguished Member
Indeed. Last week I built and placed a big ceiling cloud on my room, and the acoustics improved significantly. I had nasty echoes coming from the ceiling, and this cloud solved most of that issue.
Did you make it a feature by incorporating downlighters?
I have seen some very nice cloud designs,but they are not cheap
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
A lot can be learned from watching his videos
@DougAP one large reflective area often neglected is the ceiling
If you cover the ceiling first reflection points for L/C/R with panels covered in dark (light rejecting material) it can also help your projector contrast

Been planning that for a while as it happens, although haven't settled on how to fix it to the ceiling. I think that one will have to be covered with devore; the ceiling's already black, so a devore panel there should disappear nicely.
 

Topmetom 2

Distinguished Member
Just reading this whole thread whilst in crete...very interesting chaps thank you.
Where is the best place to get the art covered panels? Was in a restaurant and the whole wall was covered in canvas’ and the wife said, i like them! Immediately i said there acoustic panels (sneaky) she said oh theyre nice. So here I am! Ive been in touch with mafia and like the prices a lot..im hoping it may take some boom from the sub shes always moaning about. Another good thing maybe as im terraced to stop listening to the neighbours tv and arguing? Is that possible?
Thanks in advance..
 

silva741

Active Member
Just reading this whole thread whilst in crete...very interesting chaps thank you.
Where is the best place to get the art covered panels? Was in a restaurant and the whole wall was covered in canvas’ and the wife said, i like them! Immediately i said there acoustic panels (sneaky) she said oh theyre nice. So here I am! Ive been in touch with mafia and like the prices a lot..im hoping it may take some boom from the sub shes always moaning about. Another good thing maybe as im terraced to stop listening to the neighbours tv and arguing? Is that possible?
Thanks in advance..
Here in Europe a good option is Spoonflower, they have a facility in Berlin, and several of their fabrics are great for acoustic panels. The only limitation is they don't print copyrighted material. Which means, you can't print movie posters.

I'm sure there are other European companies which don't have that limitation, but I haven't found them yet - or at least, not with reasonable prices. I'd love to print several movie posters for my acoustic panels, but I'm still searching for a similarly priced alternative to Spoonflower.
 

swiftpete

Distinguished Member
Right guys I'm ready to build some now. I am thinking of getting some 100kg/metre slabs and having them in 100mm deep frames. Is that going to be alright, or should I get less dense slabs? Reading differing advice online.
 

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