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Beatles MFSL box set ?

Discussion in 'Music & Music Streaming Services' started by karkus30, Sep 26, 2004.

  1. karkus30

    karkus30
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    As I dont have any Beatles albums apart from Sargeant Peppers and a few old cassettes, I been wondering about purchasing a secondhand box set of 13 audiophile albums on vinyl (every cd I have heard sounded poor). Opinions anyone......oh yeah, they are expensive suprise, suprise. But there again, buying 12 new cds would cost around £120
     
  2. LV426

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    If you want to hear vinyl, then Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab records are about as good as they will ever get - depending, of course, on how well they've been looked after.
     
  3. the_pauley

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    I would hang fire as The Beatles catalogue will soon be getting a sonic upgrade on SACD.

    If you want a taste of what a brush up of the master tapes will bring, compare the remixed/remastered tracks on the "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" release to the ones on the standard release albums. Difference is like day and night, and the technology used to remaster these tracks was of the 1998 variety.

    The new Stones re-masters put the vinyl originals in the shade, and those master tapes were nowhere near as well treated over the years as The Beatles multi-tracks have been.
     
  4. karkus30

    karkus30
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    That means buying into SACD properly. I have a Denon which doubles up as a SACD player, but its really for DVD duties and is miles away from my proper hifi system.
     
  5. Kenny Glasgow

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    Karkus

    Don't believe the MFSL myth! Some of their re-masters are not that good (I have them), especially Magical Mystery Tour. I would try and get either the original Japanes issues or the 70's Apple re-issues with the EAS cat.numbers. The vinyl is just as good and the matering is better (in my opinion). The packaging is superb and the Apple labels are a nice dark green :thumbsup:

    Toshiba-EMI have in the last few months have re-issued the albums again as a limited run on vinyl but I have not heard them. MMT might be worth getting at least as the digital re-master is superior to the original LP (true stereo mix of Baby You're A Rich Man) as is Revolver.
     
  6. the_pauley

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    Don't worry about the SACD layer, I think you'll be quite happy with the re-mastered CD layer on a decent CD player. The CD layers on all the SACDs I own sound stunning on my CD player. The Stones and Dylan re-masters are a revelation. I've done A-B-C-D comparisons. Original UK vinyl pressings vs. original CD issues vs. remastered CD layer vs. re-mastered SACD layer.

    The remastered CD layer (let alone the SACD) outshines the original vinyl, and is so good that on a good quality CD player it gives the SACD layer a run for its money.
     
  7. Kenny Glasgow

    Kenny Glasgow
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    Pauley

    Quite agree re: Stones and Dylan hybrids, absolutely fantastic and miles ahead of the original vinyl. I'm waiting for Nick Drakes' albums to be put onto hybrid discs especially Bryter Lyter :thumbsup: There is a Best Of out on hybrid so hopefully the rest will follow.

    Elton's GYBR is another great hybrid and I'm really looking forward to Cpt. Fantastic, the rest I wont bother with.

    On a Beatles note , George's Live In Japan double is a great hybrid :thumbsup: , it's just a pity that the rest of his Dark Horse re-issues were only CD :thumbsdow
     
  8. karkus30

    karkus30
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    What are you using as a vinyl spinner in order to compare ?

    Its a key question as most of my vinyl will eat the digital alternative for brekky.

    Even well produced CDs such as RATM, suffer in comparison to their vinyl counterpart.
    The only time this changes is when a CD seems to get transfered to vinyl. Not sure if this is exactly how it goes, but I own two versions of Paul Simons - Hearts and Bones, one is a later vinyl recording (has a barcode on the back) the other is the original vinyl and the difference is incredible.
     
  9. the_pauley

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    Using a quite tasty Michell/Linn/Audio Technica turntable/arm/cartridge combo costing well over £1k. Search for the following thread in the "Music" forum:

    Beatles/Neil Young/Prince/U2/Kraftwerk remasters

    I discuss these listening tests there.

    Re your "Hearts and Bones" vinyl - nothing to do with a CD being transfered to vinyl (not quite sure what you mean by that anyway as "Hearts and Bones" was released on vinyl before the arrival of CD).

    Vinyl re-issues / re-pressings have always sounded inferior to the originals, and long before the days of CD. I have heard second or third pressings of best selling albums released within a couple of years of the original pressing that sound significantly inferior to the original pressings.

    The very process of creating analogue cutting tapes and stamping mothers, not to mention the acts of cutting and pressing, degrades the delicate hi-fi information contained on the original master tapes. So this is even more noticeable on repressings where original masters and stamping mothers aren't used (sometimes third. fourth or more generation from the originals.
     
  10. Kenny Glasgow

    Kenny Glasgow
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    Well there's a good argument to start :D

    I can remember when I started buying music in serious quantaties in the 70's and vinyl was crap! I have a copy of Changesonebowie that I could bend and the "sides" could touch each other. I had to take back 5 copies of Yes' Going For The One as it had terrible hiss and surface noise. In fact it took a really expensive cartridge to be able to track Rick Wakeman's church organ as most cart's couldn't handle it. 4 or 5 copies of Squeeze's Singles 45's & Under where one side sounded better than the other. Joe Cocker's Sheffield Steel where you had to check the matrix number to get the best copy. etc etc etc etc.

    On the other hand the early CD issues were usually crap too, hence why we rave so much about the re-masters.

    At the end of the day a well mastered CD will beat a well mastered LP hands down in my opinion, using "real world" equipment and music. Yes I'm sure that a £20k t/t with a great arm and cart playing re-issued heavy vinyl at £25 an LP does sound great, but I gave up on all that years ago.

    Yes my Japanese Beatles LPs sound great but I never play them. Like the easy life of silver discs and my iPod :smashin: Still wont sell my vinyl though ;)
     
  11. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Right, very interesting, so.........if I read this correctly, dont buy re issues unless they are bona fida remasters from the master tapes. Now that really does put a downer on things.........like, how many albums do I have that sound dreadful, that I have attributed to just poor recordings. Now I think about it, when I have purchased albums during initial release, most have sounded great. That also explains the 12 copies of PF DSOTM that were required, before I found a reasonable copy.........they just sold too many albums, hence quality problems.


    With silver discs..........good enough, is good enough for me..........I bought Zeps - How the West was won and it sounds amazing compared to the vinyl (but maybe thats purely down to the generation of the pressing?). However, if the Beatles sounded as good as that, I would be happy.

    The copy of Hearts and Bones that has the barcode on the back (printed, not a sticker) is of a far later generation and was probably re issued about the same time as the CD..........hence my assumption that it might have been remastered to suit CD in its early form (mostly bad copies of classic albums back then) and transfered to vinyl.

    £1K worth of TT is quite admirable, but I have found to my cost that to improve on a 'state of the art' cdp requires more than just an equal spend with a cdp. IMO, if you own £500 cdp, expect to spend around £2K as an equivalent on a TT (not forgeting that does not include the phono stage which is equally important). Then there is the set up of the TT (this is very nearly a black art and can take hours of messing around) which can make a TT perform like a thoroughbred or sound mind numbingly lifeless.

    With a cdp, you quickly reach the cost v performance plateau. Once beyond about £1K, theres little improvement (not applicable to SACD/DVDA just standard CD). But a TT, can be improved, almost infinitely and each new generation of components pushes the boundaries further (yes, there are still improvements to be had, even though the pace of progress is slow due to the minority interest).

    Kenny Glasgow's comment "Yes I'm sure that a £20k t/t with a great arm and cart playing re-issued heavy vinyl at £25 an LP does sound great" doesnt ring true..............or should I say, you dont need to spend that much and you dont need £25 a go records to prove it. But it does require infinite patience, careful matching and higher costs compared to CD, which is plug and play by comparison.

    Remember, also, that there are an awful lot of albums that were produced on vinyl that have not yet appeared in decent form on CD. I have a s/hand copy of Killing Jokes self titled album on vinyl (bought recently) and the CD version.........the CD is now in the bin.

    I love the convenience of CD and I own many more CDs than albums, but it remains the case that my CD player does not live with my TT when comparing eggs with eggs. Thats not just my opinion, I have had several hifi and none hifi people say the same. Would that I could just dump all my bits of wretched, dust gathering plastic (been close on many ocassions) for an infinitely superior format......................Im still waiting :rolleyes:

    My CD player is a Marantz CD17, not the ultimate player I grant you. I also own a soon to be modded CD80, which will probably take over duties until the SACD debate settles down.
     
  12. alan8477

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    I remember the good old days of vinyl:

    Could only ever purchase locally in case I had to return it (highly likely)
    Had to zerostat and clean the disc before playing
    Had to buy replacement inner sleeves for almost every disc (soft plastic lined)
    Always had to store upright
    Could never store against an outside wall
    Had to walk gently around the room (so as not to bounce that problem floorboard)
    Never Never Never touch the playing surface
    Replace the disc if ever you played it when you were ******
    New stylus every 3 months
    Play in the order that the manufacture determined
    Rarely have silent background on quiet sections

    Don't get me wrong, I still have my vinyly collection and treasure it. I still use both of my phono decks (Rega and Pioneer). The sound quality (ignoring the stuff that shouldn't be there) does sound warmer than CD, and the sleeves are lovely. But I have clearly become lazy. Give me that remote!
     
  13. Kenny Glasgow

    Kenny Glasgow
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    Karkus/Alan

    Yes you can get great sounds from a vinyl without spending a fortune. I too love Gyrodeck with a Rega RB300 and Ortofon cart (can't remember which as it's in the loft :blush: ).

    I don't have much original 60's vinyl just (all) Beatles, (most) Stones, (some) Dyland and Pink Floyd and a few others - I was too young :zonked:

    All I can say that the vinyl I bought in the 70's and 80's was a nightmare. Warped discs, scratches, hiss, thin vinyl. Yes it's great to have a sleeve you can hold and read and it does produce a warm sound. Vinyl only started to get better in the mid 90's when they were pressed on decent quality plastic using good masters, but it was too little, too late for me. The only vinyl I buy now is Beatles stuff for my collection, but never played. :oops:
     
  14. applevenus

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    Some enterprising folks have already transferred the MSFL set to CD. Check out a few Beatles discussion groups on yahoogroups.

    I have the MSFL set but only as a collector's item. Silly I know but I don't have a turntable good enough to play it on ! It comes with some sort of alignment mat and I must admit it does look nice.... I have the mono vinyl box set which is quite rare. Those mono mixes are available on CD-R also if you know where to look.
     
  15. Kenny Glasgow

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    Yes the mono box is to treasure! :thumbsup: I've heard a few of the MFSL mono LPs and on some they work better that the stereo issues, especially MMT. All mine are stereo but I do have the Japanese Apple 70's re-issues which are superb in both mono and stereo.
     

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