BD+ to be switched on early.

gixxerman

Active Member
The Blu-ray Disc Association has announced that following breaches of the security of the high-definition format's AACS security technology, it has brought forward the planned release date of the BD-Plus (BD+), a more advanced anti-copying system.
BD+ is an entirely different encryption system to AACS. Instead of each movie having the same encryption key, BD+ allows each disc to install a small piece of encryption software on a player, so that each disc has its own key.

A method for extracting Blu-ray keys was published in January (the rival HD DVD format, which also uses AACS, had already been cracked). As a result, the AACS licensing body last week released a security update that supplied new encryption keys for the affected discs. However this means that existing discs can no longer be played until the update is applied.

BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles. This allows a single disc to be rejected if it is anyone attempts to play it in a second player or PC. This, says the association, effectively punishes the person stealing the content instead of everyone who owns that movie.

However, because discs are tied to a specific player you will not be able to sell them on once you have tired of them: no BD+ Blu-ray on eBay. It is also likely to make it impossible to create back-up copies of discs.

The Blu-ray Disc Association reports that player compatibility testing has ended and that studios have had test discs for the last few months. Once BD+ is available it will add between seven to 28 days per title to production time. 20th Century Fox is expected to be one of the firsts to implement this new technology, having slowed disc production since the attacks on AACS, and Sony Pictures is planning to be using it by the end of the year.

http://www.computerbuyer.co.uk/

- Just as others start to ditch DRM the BD crowd start to pile it on - how clunky and unreliable is this liable to make things......and how much trouble will it spell for the earlier generations and those of limited internal memory (when the download firmware upgrade gobbles up all available - how 'sufficent' will the small amounts available be then, huh?)

I bet the rental industry is thrilled and folks at home unable to play a disc on a 2nd machine will love this, not.

There go any notions of 'fair use' or 'managed copy'.

Personally I have long held the view that BD ought to be avoided on the grounds of the DRM issue alone.
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
:confused: Good point about rentals.. if this is true and a BR disc with BD+ will only ever play on a single machine, how would that work? ?

If rental copies are exempt in some way, surely the priates (no not the caribbean ones.. :D ) would just rent a disc to copy, not even buying one to start with! :D
 

Timbo21

Well-known Member
I bet the rental industry is thrilled and folks at home unable to play a disc on a 2nd machine will love this, not.

Wow.

I have no intention of buying every disc I watch. I just can't afford it. I would be relying on rentals. The above would make rentals impossible :suicide:

If this is true, then I would have thought that would be a real nail in the coffin for Blu-ray. I just can't imagine the public would go for it at all

I would rather stick with SD DVD than have that.

T.

ps. I think the + needs to be turned into -
 

Bluetyler

Member
Gixxerman. Can you please tell us where you got the following text from??

"BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles. This allows a single disc to be rejected if it is anyone attempts to play it in a second player or PC. This, says the association, effectively punishes the person stealing the content instead of everyone who owns that movie.

However, because discs are tied to a specific player you will not be able to sell them on once you have tired of them: no BD+ Blu-ray on eBay. It is also likely to make it impossible to create back-up copies of discs."

The news item from that web site does not contain such text in its article? :confused:

Curious?
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
If this is true, then I would have thought that would be a real nail in the coffin for Blu-ray.

It would seem impossible that the BDA would consider this, sure they may have pandered to the studios need for DRM more than HD-DVD so far, but why would they damage their own format to such an extent, this just doesn't make sense IMO...
:confused:
 

Gadget Freak

Active Member
This can't be right, what happens when your player needs replacing ?
 

mmace

Active Member
so, if you have hundreds of movies, costing you a small fortune, all with BD+ and your player dies on you then you have no choice but to replace your collection too?
what a load of rubbish!
 

gixxerman

Active Member
Gixxerman. Can you please tell us where you got the following text from??



The news item from that web site does not contain such text in its article? :confused:

Curious?

- It used to, my quote is exactly as it was originally (if you need proof see their comments section where the unannounced update/change to the article is mentioned).

In the interests of fairness here is the updated version -

The Blu-ray Disc Association has announced that following breaches of the security of the high-definition format's AACS security technology, it has brought forward the planned release date of the BD-Plus (BD+), a more advanced anti-copying system.
BD+ is an entirely different encryption system to AACS. Instead of each movie having the same encryption key, BD+ allows each disc to install a small piece of encryption software on a player, so that each disc has its own key.

A method for extracting Blu-ray keys was published in January (the rival HD DVD format, which also uses AACS, had already been cracked). As a result, the AACS licensing body last week released a security update that supplied new encryption keys for the affected discs. However this means that existing discs can no longer be played until the update is applied.

BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles.

The Blu-ray Disc Association reports that player compatibility testing has ended and that studios have had test discs for the last few months.

Once BD+ is available it will add between seven to 28 days per title to production time. 20th Century Fox is expected to be one of the firsts to implement this new technology, having slowed disc production since the attacks on AACS, and Sony Pictures is planning to be using it by the end of the year.

http://www.computerbuyer.co.uk/

- I must admit I wondered how (without any sort of burning process) it could be appied to the discs themselves.

But in any even I still regard BD's version of DRM as fundamentally anti-consumer and well worth avoiding.
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
It appears the article has now been changed.. :rolleyes:

To be fair when I first read it, it was as Gixerman has posted, he hasn't just made this up :D
 

Bluetyler

Member
- It used to, my quote is exactly as it was originally (if you need proof see their comments section where the unannounced update/change to the article is mentioned).

In the interests of fairness here is the updated version -



http://www.computerbuyer.co.uk/

- I must admit I wondered how (without any sort of burning process) it could be appied to the discs themselves.

But in any even I still regard BD's version of DRM as fundamentally anti-consumer and well worth avoiding.

No problem. I thought that was the case. The author obviously applied his own interpretation to the announcement then realsied what utter drivel he had written. Can you image having a disc tied to one player! So if you had 2 players you could only use the disc in one of them. It would have been a great April fool though. :)
 

Drongo

Distinguished Member
I posted this in the general thread in response to gixxermans & Neils posts.

It seems more appropriate here though:


BD+ is a potential nightmare……..


Despite the way it has been spun:


Sony, among other studios, believes BD+ allows them to produce secure, yet consumer-friendly product, because only the hacker is punished for comprising copy-protection.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6433561.html


See this post:


BD+ can run native code on the player platform in "advanced countermeasure" mode. If that is true, it means they can basically do whatever they please with the machine, including e.g. re-flashing firmware or writing to your PC's hard disk to permanently install "countermeasure" software (think Sony rootkit).

The biggest problem I have with BD+ (besides a deep disliking of the idea that a movie disc can run native code on my player) is it's lack of transparency. The specs are not publicly available, and everybody seems to be tight-lipped about it. To me, that raises the suspicion that there is something they are not telling us (presumably either because it would be bad PR, or because the system is banking on "security by obscurity"; both would be reason for concern). Any light an insider might be able to shed on this would be welcome.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8193766&&#post8193766


More Root-Kit anyone……..
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
The article may have been changed but I still believe where's there is smoke there is fire !! :eek:

There seemed to be a lot in the original article to be just assumption from the author..

BD+ would avoid this scenario, by applying the DRM to individual discs rather than movie titles. This allows a single disc to be rejected if it is anyone attempts to play it in a second player or PC.This, says the association, effectively punishes the person stealing the content instead of everyone who owns that movie.

However, because discs are tied to a specific player you will not be able to sell them on once you have tired of them: no BD+ Blu-ray on eBay. It is also likely to make it impossible to create back-up copies of discs.

The Blu-ray Disc Association reports that player compatibility testing has ended and that studios have had test discs for the last few months. Once BD+ is available it will add between seven to 28 days per title to production time. 20th Century Fox is expected to be one of the firsts to implement this new technology, having slowed disc production since the attacks on AACS, and Sony Pictures is planning to be using it by the end of the year.

It is interesting and maybe a good sign for BR if BD+ is ready and therefore the likes of Sony and Fox start to release the titles that have been delayed, but I would still be a bit unsure of some draconian DRM being implemented eventually...
 

Mr_Sukebe

Active Member
I'm astounded that only one other person here has questioned the viability of a system that would be able to limit itself to a single player. Surely that would require either disk itself to be updated (thus changing a read only disk to a re-writeable one), or for the player to upload to the net and update a central database, which might be rather difficult for units not connected.

Smells to me like someone trying to use scare tactics.
Don't you love the format wars.
 

TarMoo

Member
BD+ will be the kiss of death for Blu-ray.
 

peterweg

Banned
[mod comment: Please phrase your comments carefully without abusive comments]

If the original article has been corrected please edit your quote to correct it.

A simple reason why locking to a single player is impossible. Blu-ray is ROM. How can it record that its already been used when network access isn't standard in Blu-ray players?
 

pythagoras

Active Member
Sony filed patents for this technology in 2005, I wouldnt think for one minute that they would actually implement it.
The internet at the time was full of rumours about you not being able to rent or swap ps3 games.

No one else remembers????

Regards

John.
 

MAW

Banned
The PS3 is the one area that this could seriously affect IMHO. No other current players are net connected, and Peterweg and others are 100% right, unless there is some sort of on line database of player/disc marriages, it's impossible to implement. PS3 I think could still happen. BR movies too are easily possible, but most likely just games, if it happens.
 
C

CRUEFAN

Guest
I doubt this can happen , as its an assumption everyone connects their bd player/ps3 to the internet.Also if the bd+ system writes its own code , whats to stop hackers dumping the disc , and altering/inserting their own code.Afterall AACS was supposed to be unbeatable.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
The hacker community are going to welcome BD+ with open arms......I am not so sure the rest of us will however :( Minefield.
 

peterweg

Banned
[mod comment: Please phrase your comments carefully without abusive comments]

If the original article has been corrected please edit your quote to correct it.

A simple reason why locking to a single player is impossible. Blu-ray is ROM. How can it record that its already been used when network access isn't standard in Blu-ray players?

I'll repeat. Nowhere in the article does it say that disks can prevented from working in more than one BD player. Besides being technically impossible to do.
 

mattym

Banned
im not sure i see why people dont like the idea of some kind of anti-copy protection, i cant think of a single instance when i would want to copy a dvd that ive bought?

How would this software work? does anyone have any solid facts or is it all conjecture?
 

Bald Monkey

Novice Member
i cant think of a single instance when i would want to copy a dvd that ive bought?

For me, being able to put my DVD's onto my PSP is great for travelling, and I can understand why so many parents want to create backup copies of DVD's for their kids to use, keeping the originals safe, especially with Disney titles that arn't always on general release.

Oh, and eventually I want to get all my DVD's onto HDD, just for ease of use, and so I can archive my SD collection when HD has taken over ...
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
Not everyone believes that the adition of BD+ actually increases security, the DVD forum crowd rejected the technology and it felt security would far from being enhanced by it would be actually reduced by applying BD+. It potentially (like any security system) allows more loop holes to be exposed and is totally dependent on AACS anyway. It therefore might make AACS more exposed than it currently is to hackers. The previous result of the compromises was delays in disc releases. This is why many don't like it.
 

mattym

Banned
does bd+ stop you from doing any or all of those things?
 

nl7474

Standard Member
I read about PS3 games being tied to one machine.

imo Sony does not have the market share to do that now. When the plans were drawn up they were no doubt expecting the PS3 to dominate like the PS2 but right now that looks unlikely even if it does win out in the end.

Implementing something like this would make MS and Hd DVD think xmas had come early.

Neil

P.S When will companies reallise that if you charge a fair price most people would not be interested in piracy. It may mean a slight pay cut for all the people in the industry but I'm sure they would get by just fine.

P.P.S Why do all threads go back to front when I log in? Highly annoying!
 

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