BBC IMP HD Downloads Now Working

dodgyd said:
It's 958MB and runs for 50minutes at 2713kbps. It doesn't have the characteristic sharpness of other HD content I have seen (US TV shows etc) from the 'usual' places. To be honest, it's a little disappointing though slightly sharper than conventional TV.
imp.jpg

Dave.


...umm, disappointing to say the least. I appreciate HD takes up loads of space, but it defeats the object if it is compressed to just above SD standard.
 
dodgyd said:
I tried that, I have iMP installed on my main pc and on my lounge pc.
The content that is stored on my main pc won't play on my lounge pc no matter what I try (even via the iMP player). I've got both installations pointing to the same drives (mapped in Windows) and that doesn't work either.
I think this implementation of DRM is too strict.
Dave.

I'll have a go at ripping the DRM if someone lends me there username and password. anyone?...

check this post if you do not believe me...

DRM Removal
 
stevebrowne said:
the image is simply not as good as the recording of the same episodes I have on Sky+.
iMP will not offer a comparable SD picture quality to Sky digital because:

Resolution: iMP is 720x405 progressive pixels where Sky (DVDs, Freeview) are 720x576 interlaced pixels.

Bandwidth: iMP is approximately 1Mbps (Mega bits per second), whereas Sky channels can be as high as 4Mbps.

Codec: iMP uses WMP9 and Sky (DVD, Freeview) use MPEG2.

This is why I am interested to know what the resolution/bitrate of iMP's HD content is at (we know it uses WMP9-HD codec).

StooMonster
 
Okay, so reading posts above I see that HD content is 1080x720 pixels at 2.65Mbps. Hrm...

StooMonster
 
Presumably the 720x405 progressive is 25p not 50p - so you get poor motion rendition on video sourced material (like EastEnders etc.)

As for posting logins etc. - I would imagine that this would be in breach of the terms and conditions for the trial, as would assisting others in breaking the DRM.

I would hope that the iMP would be compatible with Windows Media Connect, which allows DRM playback on streaming clients AIUI.

Does sound like the Beeb need to reconsider their quality levels. I wouldn't be interested in a download player that reduced the 720x576 source resolution and chucked away interlace on SD sources.
 
Stephen Neal said:
Does sound like the Beeb need to reconsider their quality levels. I wouldn't be interested in a download player that reduced the 720x576 source resolution and chucked away interlace on SD sources.

To be honest, remembering that the source material will all have been vertically filtered to remove components likely to cause interline twitter, then 720x405 is probably a pretty good match to the resolution obtainable from a 576i signal providing an adequate deinterlace algorithm is being used during the encoding.

I agree that if it is only encoded at 25p then the lack of interlace motion rendition is a problem, and that they should ideally be using 50p encoding.

720x405@50p encoding at 1Mbps WM9 should easily give better picture quality than the current freeview transmissions do -- even if the aspect ratio is a little off.

Steven
 
StevenBagley said:
To be honest, remembering that the source material will all have been vertically filtered to remove components likely to cause interline twitter, then 720x405 is probably a pretty good match to the resolution obtainable from a 576i signal providing an adequate deinterlace algorithm is being used during the encoding.

I agree that if it is only encoded at 25p then the lack of interlace motion rendition is a problem, and that they should ideally be using 50p encoding.

720x405@50p encoding at 1Mbps WM9 should easily give better picture quality than the current freeview transmissions do -- even if the aspect ratio is a little off.

Steven

Yep - agree that 720x400ish in 50p would be fine. Bet you it is 25p though...
 
Stephen Neal said:
Yep - agree that 720x400ish in 50p would be fine. Bet you it is 25p though...

That's where my money would be too... Which again would be fine for progressive stuff (especially filmised video!) just not for video stuff (Casualty, Eastenders, Holby etc).

I wonder how much more space 50p WMV9 needs over 25p...

Steven
 
Just downloaded the 2nd part of planets and the good news Is It looks like the IMP team have listened to my email in requesting for them to up the bitrate on HD content. Cause now the bitrate Is 6192kbps and weighs in at 2.10GB. Unfortunatly It`s still at 1080x720 but hey It`s progress :) Love soup is up next for download in HD so we will have to see If this comes out in 1280x720 as It`s probably filmed in HD where with the planets by the look of it, is upscaled to HD resolution.
 
Random Hajile said:
Just downloaded the 2nd part of planets and the good news Is It looks like the IMP team have listened to my email in requesting for them to up the bitrate on HD content. Cause now the bitrate Is 6192kbps and weighs in at 2.10GB. Unfortunatly It`s still at 1080x720 but hey It`s progress :) Love soup is up next for download in HD so we will have to see If this comes out in 1280x720 as It`s probably filmed in HD where with the planets by the look of it, is upscaled to HD resolution.

If the Beeb shot Love Soup in HD - then it is likely it will have been shot in 1080/25p - so the source resolution will be 1920x1080/25p although this could be reduced to 1920x1080 containing 1440x1080/25p (if non-SR HDCam was used - as this subsamples to 1440)
 
Just downloaded love soup and is indeed in 720P and got an email from them saying the standard resolution for HD content will be 1280x720. The data rate is only around 2000kbps and shows in parts but looks much better being in 720p now.
 
Random Hajile said:
Just downloaded love soup and is indeed in 720P and got an email from them saying the standard resolution for HD content will be 1280x720. The data rate is only around 2000kbps and shows in parts but looks much better being in 720p now.

Interesting -- Love Soup was shot on Super16 not HD, so I wonder why they chose to post it in HD -- or is it another upconversion?

Steven
 
StevenBagley said:
Interesting -- Love Soup was shot on Super16 not HD, so I wonder why they chose to post it in HD -- or is it another upconversion?

Steven

Upconversation I would say as this looks no where near as nice as some of the other 720P material I have.
 
Super 16 may well look better in HD than SD if decent lighting and stock is used - it won't look as good as 35, but it still potentially outperforms SD video. Certainly Super 16 blown up to 35 usually looks better than VT blown up to 35.
 
Stephen Neal said:
Super 16 may well look better in HD than SD if decent lighting and stock is used - it won't look as good as 35, but it still potentially outperforms SD video. Certainly Super 16 blown up to 35 usually looks better than VT blown up to 35.

Oh definitely -- however I can't see why the BBC (or Cinema Verity in this case) would post it in HD when an SD post would look identical (the Spirit used to transfer is already oversampling for SD by scanning at 2K). Of course, there might be foreign sales potential for a HD version...

Now Bleak House (or by the look of it, Rocket Man is I think HD) in 720p should be nice, although a 1080p25 version would be breathtaking.

Steven
 
I've been playing around with iMP a little myself but I've found it to be far from stable on my machine and the insistence of loading at startup is unaccepable. Even if you delete the reg key it will replace it when you run the program again.

I probably wouldn't mind as such of it constantly running in the background, aiding the P2P infrastructure but it plays havok on my internet connection and randomly freezes. Speeds were pretty poor and as I have Sky+ at the moment I found little benefit it iMP.

I've since uninstalled the program and may wait for an updated version before trying it again. To tell you truth I am curious about trying out some BBC-HD material but honestly don't think it's worth it.
 
StevenBagley said:
Oh definitely -- however I can't see why the BBC (or Cinema Verity in this case) would post it in HD when an SD post would look identical (the Spirit used to transfer is already oversampling for SD by scanning at 2K). Of course, there might be foreign sales potential for a HD version...

Now Bleak House (or by the look of it, Rocket Man is I think HD) in 720p should be nice, although a 1080p25 version would be breathtaking.

Steven

Yep - I'd expect the only reason for HD post would be for co-production or overseas sales purposes - and given that the male lead in Love Soup is a US actor... You would probably struggle to sell a high-end drama series to the US if it wasn't HD.

The OC is shot in Super 16 I believe - and posted in HD for Fox.

Bleak House would be a good choice for HD on the iMP because it is only 30 min episodes - and being shot 25p would scale nicely to 720p, even though it is shot 1080p.
 
I have my lounge pc running imp and feeding the output into my plasma. No matter how much I try, I can't get my plasma to display the picture in the right aspect without going back to 4:3 and having huge bars above and to the side. I have the PC set to the native resolution of my plasma (435xde) too. If I instruct imp to occupy full screen, it goes into 'stretch vision' - a letterbox with bars above and below :(

I don't have this problem with any other content including HD material from the usual places.

Dave.
 
I suspect the problem is that if you are running Windows in native resolution - which is 1024x768 for that display I believe - Windows will treat this as square-pixel 1024x768 and thus think that the display is 4:3. iMP will probably therefore letterbox 16:9 content when full-screen - as it thinks that full-screen is 4:3 - even though the 1024x768 is filling a 16:9 plasma (because it is based on non-square pixels)

I suspect it would be worth trying a 1360 or 1376 x 768 resolution mode - although it won't be horizontally pixel matched, it will be line matched still, and Windows will be running almost 16:9 in square pixel terms, so will treat the plasma as if it is 16:9.

This is a fundamental issue with Windows - it can't cope with non-square pixel displays properly.

Some software running under Windows lets you force an aspect ratio (Windows Media Center for example) but not all does.
 
This has been running for a while now, is anyone getting fed up of the constant nags to fill out the diary? I know I signed up to it, but I'll be glad when the trial is finished and it makes into production!
Dave.
 
Can the downloaded material be replayed in MCE or does it have to be played via the IMP software ?

Richie.
 
You have to play it on the machine that downloaded it and has the imp software installed. There is DRM (Digital Rights Management) in all the files, so you can't copy or keep them for longer than 7 days after the broadcast date.
Too limiting IMO.
Dave.
 
But as long as I had downloaded on to the MCE machine and had the imp sw installed, do I have to play the download through BBCs own player or any player ?

Richie.
 
Anyone a triallist on the latest BBC download trial? It's not as good as the iMP IMO, a more clunky interface.

Dave.
 

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