Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Howard Pitfield, Sep 10, 2004.
read more at article
So there is a feed on one of the Eutelsat birds, and since theyre using Tandberg encoders its probably in good old MPEG-2. Now we just have to find it and hope its FTA.
IIRC, the Atlantic Bird satellites are part of the Eutelsat fleet as well. Ill begin there.
Fellow feed-hunters, start your scans!
Ive found some more details on Eutelsats site. The BBC HD feed is on E-bird at 33° East. Unfortunately I cant move my dish that far east, so someone else will have to scan it. It should be in plain MPEG-2.
There is a second HD feed for the IBC; this ones from the French HD Forum on Atlantic Bird 3 @ 5° West. Ive opened a new topic about it...
Abstrakt, do you have a transponder freq for the BBC feed, I suppose not, you would have given it. I will keep looking.
I didn't have it then, but I have it now. Thanks to John Locker on the Feedhunters mailing list.
11679 V, SR: 24411, FEC: 2/3
ID "BBC Broadcast : Live playout from the Broadcast Centre London.via Eutelsat"
Abstrakt, I have it tuned in, it is unscrambled but only just starting up. I could see the people in the control centre earlier, Now they have some proms clips showing but the sound is just a test tone. I have to go out for an hour now and I will check again when I return.
I am still getting just a test tone on the audio track of this loop. Anybody getting anything different?
Yes the audio is still test beeps or tones.
Full tuning details :
11679V 24441 2/3 PIDs 308/256/8190 (HD and 4:2:0)
ID=HD_DEMO, video datarate is 20 Mbps.
I like the animal pix.
Chris Muriel, Manchester.
Chris, I was wondering would they be sending the audio on another transponder. Yes the nature section is the most impressive part of the loop.
It just went to colour bars for a minute and then went off the air. That must be it for today, 6:00 CET
If they are sending the audio somewhere else, it certainly isn't (or wasn't) anywhere within the multiplex - I looked in my transport stream reader (pro version of TSreader).
Neither is it referenced in the NIT (Network Info Table) 'cos I dissected that also. It only refers to 11.000 at 19W (which is a non existent bird) ; I suspect the NIT is just info from some previous usage of the encoding equipment - broadcasters often leave old info or default settings like "Tandberg _ DVB" in the NIT.
Chris Muriel, Manchester.
Some general questions. Just stuff I'm curious about so if anyone has any ideas, would be interesting to know. How does the camera situation work?: Do they use analogue cameras still and convert to digital or are they digital video cameras with some sort of expensive ccd type technology. What would the recorded resolution be? Would the cameras record at 720p or 1080p exactly or would they be upscaled from a lower resolution? Do they use some sort of non-standard resolution. Are they using mpeg 2 or mpeg 4?
I would guess any old programs would have to be upscaled to HD resolution hence possible analogue > digital > scale to higher resolution.
One of the main things I wonder is - will it be a case of new programs just being recorded at hi-res (i.e. hi-def). I assume whatever tech bbc uses will have to be able to be downgraded. Thing is someone at work was saying that it should be straight-forward for bbc to convert to hd filming. I hope that ntl will grab those new pace hi-def with hdd set top boxes and implement with dual tuner. If the bbc end up getting us hi-def quicker then I'll maybe complain less about license fee
Sorry for the noob style questions. Thanks in advance.
All video cameras are analogue until after the CCD when it is digitised after that they deal in digital signals as they have for the past 15 years or so. But yes, HD cameras just have CCDs with more pixels on them.
As for the cameras in use they tend to be the Sony HDW-F750 (use on 'The Mysti Show', the forthcoming 'Shoebox Zoo' and both the test done on 'The Bill' and 'Holby City'), the Sony HDW-F900 (used on 'Rockface' and of course 'Star Wars'), and both these cameras can record in interlaced fashion to get the videolook of 'Holby' and 'The Bill' as well as progressive fashion to get a film like look, without having to mash the video in post later (like is currently down on shows like 'The Office' and 'Doctor Who') and sacrifice a lot of resolution. There is also the Sony HDC-950 which is a camera head only which is used to cover events like the recent 'Last Night of the Proms'. All these cameras record in 1920x1080 pixels at 25p for the film look or 50i for the video look. Lots of techy stuff at www.sonybiz.net
Also in use is the Panasonic VariCam, which while only being 720p capable has the advantage of being able to record at any framerate up to 60fps.
Of course, for film originated material the current telecines in use in the post-houses (including the BBC's own at TVC) are capable of outputting HD as well as SD.
This is where it gets a bit complicated. The cameras currently generate a full 1920x1080 or 1280x720 resolution image (although whether the CCDs actual contain that many pixels is a different question, the high end cameras contain significantly more but it is also possible to generate those res with less pixels if you are clever --- which is what the current consumer HD cameras do).
However the current popular tape formats: Sony's HDCam, and Panasonic's DVCProHD both subsample the data down to 1440x1080 and 960x720 respectively before recording it to tape. The digital compression techniques used are not MPEG based, but compress each frame separately in a simliar manner to how current consumer DV cameras do (in fact, as the name suggests Panny's DVCProHD is in fact a derivative of the DV codec)
Yes that's right. Although anything made in the past 15 years is likely to be on a digital format anyway. The results are actually suprisingly good when this is done and will look better than the original.
If the program was shot entirely on film and the film was kept (as a lot of BBC drama has been, e.g Middlemarch, Pride and Prejudice, Edge of Darkness) then the film can be retransferred in HD to get a nicer print -- although generally there isn't that much gained in terms of resolution (obviously you gain in terms of noise levels)) because the film stocks in use when the programmes were made weren't that high in resolution.
Yes, the BBC already are shooting a lot in HD and over the next few years even more will be. By 2006, the aim is for all non-soap drama to be shot HD, and by 2010 pretty much all BBC kit will be HD capable. The really nice thing is that because HD cameras are so good they produce far nicer SD pictures for us at home than SD cameras can (witness the recent Proms).
...it sounds as if you are within the echelons of the BBC or close to it! Sometime later this autumn I have been invited by the Foreign Office's Restaurant manager (I work in the FCo and do a bit of IT for the Restaurant!) to visit his brother in laws' company - none other than Milltv in London.Hopefully I will spend a day watching some CGI stuff being done on Doctor Who. I was there in 1963 watching the 1st episode and look forward to the new series currently underway in Wales.
Do you know if the current shoot on Doctor Who is using HD with an eye to selling it overseas?
Unfortunately not, it's being shot on Digibeta and then will be filmised.. IT'll look awful like `the Office' does -- though fortunately it'll have much better scripts.
IF you wajt to see some really good HD shot materail take a look at 'Shoebox Zoo' which starts this week
Thanks for that Steve - Shoebox trails look promising. Perhaps you could post some regular info here on what is being HD'ed at the BBC ...we can dream until 2006+!
Shoebox Zoo does look impressive in SD, judging by the trails. Am I right in thinking it was done in 25p? If so, it looks much better than Home & Away at 25p: it has a nasty flickering effect, and sickly skin tones.
I'm surprised Dr Who is being shot on Digibeta. In view of the all the hype surrounding its big-budget comeback, I thought it would be a prime candidate for production in HD.
Separate names with a comma.