Bat Cave and Velvet advice please.

Vipers

Well-known Member
As a new JVC 750 owner and a first time projector user I'm after some advice please, I must admit I can see this whole projector thing becoming very time consuming and addictive as I try to chase the ultimate picture for my room, thoughts of moving house to get a dedicated room have already surfaced :)

I'm going to make my room projector friendly towards the end of the year but curiousity is starting to get the better of me so I've decided to construct a make shift velvet tent, similar to KelvinS1965's, to see how much difference this will effect the overall picture.

Two questions really, how far does the tent need to come out from the screen to really work, I'm guessing about 1 meter, and has anyone got any links to a good quality cheap velvet that I can use for the experiment.

Cheers.
 

markswift2003

Novice Member
Hi Vipers, and welcome to the 750 club ;)

Great PJ isn't it!!

Give this place a go:

Black Crushed Velvet

If you want sticky backed velvet try:

Fablon Sticky Back Plastic Black Velour (450mm x 10m) 65217 Adhesives Glue And Sticky Stuff Sticky Back Plastic

Doesn't look like it from the pics, but it is jet black.

And if you want the real deal in sticky masking stuff, try Goo-Flok (think I must be getting obsessed with this stuff...)

Check this post out for an explanation:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/projection-screens/987867-increase-boarders-size.html#post9412373

Have fun with that 750...

Mark
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Two questions really, how far does the tent need to come out from the screen to really work, I'm guessing about 1 meter, and has anyone got any links to a good quality cheap velvet that I can use for the experiment.

Cheers.

My first tent came out about 1 metre, but the new one comes out about 2 metres (less than one screen width). I'm only using light black cotton cloth bought from 'Dunelm Mill' for about £22 or so for 8 metres long double width (2 metres). This cloth is light enough as velvet will be too heavy unless you fit multiple hooks to your ceiling....I tried one of the cheaper black 'felt' materials 'Molton Stage' and it was simply too heavy to work even with 1" dowels for the 'poles'. The cloth should be enough of an improvement to see if it's worth doing the room (I'm sure you'll find it will be worth doing though ;)).

I'm still working on a more permanent solution myself, with motorised control to make it as easy as possible to do. :cool:
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
Thanks for the replies guys.

My structure turned up today, the framework from a old gazebo, so it should be pretty strong, its not ideal having to erect it every time but it will do for the purpose of the test.

With this in mind, does the material you got Kelvin from Dumelm do the same job as velvet, considering my room has blackout blinds + curtains, so its pretty dark to begin with so its just a case of stopping the reflection of the walls and ceiling, or would I be better going with the crushed velvet Mark mentioned as both prices are very good.

Thanks.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I'm sure that velvet will do an even better job than my thin cotton fabric. I do have a sneeking suspicion that doesn't reflect that much more as it allows some light though, which does hit the ceiling, but this is again filtered on the way back to the screen. It's more that it is thin enough to allow my left and right speaker's sound to pass pretty much unhindered (I have applied +1 to the treble on my 'Movie night' preset in the 2808 to compensate, but that is more a placibo than anything I've measured).

If you can accomodate the velvet and the price is good, then you may as well go that route. Finding somewhere to put the velvet when the screen isn't in use is another issue: My cotton doesn't take up too much space so I lay it behind one sofa which is against a wall anyway, so it's nicely hidden. When I tried the heavier 'Molton stage' felt material it was so bulky and heavy I found it very difficult to move around and to store away. Of course if you put velvet directly on the walls and/or ceiling like IWC Dopplel then you don't have to worry about putting it away like me. :)

I think I'll get the tent out tonight and have a mid week movie, since Blockbuster delivered another two BluRays in today's post. :smashin:
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
Thanks for that Kelvin, I think I'll order the velvet tomorrow, I'm hoping at £2 a meter it shouldn't be too thick so I should be able to move it around ok.

Funny you should mention IWC Dopplel as I'm taking my 750 round to his place tomorrow night to see how the 750 performs in a velvet cinema room, I'm really looking forward to this but I'm also a little apprehensive as I may never be able to achieve the same results in my living room.

One things for sure I'll give it a bloody good go though :)

Thanks.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
I saw the HD750 at PJ Hifi's launch last September; it's a really good room and it showed. Even when I saw the HD750 in my own home for the demo, it didn't look as good as I remembered from that original demo, maybe the room, smaller screen (their screen is 2' narrower than mine IIRC) and maybe the fact that it was the first time I'd seen something that 'high end' (I had an AE2000 at the time).

Once you've seen it in a good room you'll be buying velvet like it's going out of fashion, In fact come to think of it, maybe it is out of fashion and we're all keeping them in bussiness. :D

I enjoyed 'Burn after reading' on mine tonight, I put up the tent first, though as was 1.85:1 it reminded me that I need some more velvet to make my side masks. :D
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
Once you've seen it in a good room you'll be buying velvet like it's going out of fashion, In fact come to think of it, maybe it is out of fashion and we're all keeping them in bussiness. :D

Thats a really good point :)

To be honest I never knew that this velvet fetish existed among projector owners till a couple of months ago, I thought it was a wind up, now here I am ordering 20mtrs of black velvet and I have a feeling this could just be the start :rolleyes:

I'll let you know how I find the 750 round at IWC Dopplel's, I'm expecting great things.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
That'll be two of you chasing higher things: You'll want even more velvet and IWC Dopplel might want your HD750 (IIRC he has a HD100?).....I see trouble ahead. :D

I wouldn't mention the velvet fetish outside of AV circles as you might get some funny looks. ;)

Just noticed your location...I've been working up at Ware this week, not a million miles away, not that I've got any velvet I could spare you.
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
Its a small world, a vey small world in fact as my Business is in Ware, if you see a sign for Toucan Print you are more than welcome to pop in for a coffee :thumbsup:

Off to Mr IWC's now, it definately will be interesting to compare the 750 with the 100, especially in a velvet treated room, I think we're in for a geeky night :)
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
Well after visiting IWC's abode last night with his black velvet dedicated cinema room, one thing is very very clear, I need to move house to get a dedicated room :)

The difference in the picture of my 750 was pretty amazing, everything had a more solid, punchy look, and when not using IWC's masking system so you could see the black bars, well they were actually black not grey as they are in my room.

The good news is that my velvet turned up today so if I get time over the weekend I can construct my bat cave but I fear I'll never be able to achieve the picture I witnessed last night.

On a side note, we spent quite a bit of time comparing the 100 vs the 750, and I think IWC was very happy with the results as honestly there was very little to choose between both projectors, the 750 was maybe a little sharper and was definately brighter due to the 100 needing a new bulb but as far as the overall image was concerned they are very close, where the 750 wins is its quieter, runs cooler, has the adjustable iris + the full CMS, but when it comes to the actual picture the 750 really is a refinement rather than a leap.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
At least you both weren't left with too much desire to change and/or upgrade. :) It'll be interesting to see how you get on with your room improvements, to see how close you get to the more extreme level of IWC Dopplel's room. I try to console myself that with my tent and the other throws etc that I'm probably 80% of the way there and the last 20% would be too much to achieve in my room. It's probably better that I don't see my HD350 in another room though. ;)

I saw a HD100 in a very nice dedicated room when I bought my HDQ and though the screen was a bit smaller than mine, we sat closer still and the fade to blacks were immense and the image depth was superb. I think I still had my AE3000 at the time so it was a bit of a comedown when I went home after that demo.:)

I was tempted by an end of line HD100 myself, but the iris swung it for me (I was sick of messing about with ND2 filters). I use this feature more than I expected (I've even been in the service menu to change the three presets to be much closer to allow a quick tweak according to film type). Without the iris I think I'd find the image too bright for my tastes on my higher gain screen. As you say though they are not that far apart having seen the HD100/HD350/HD750 at the UK launch last year, my room probably making the HD750's improvements moot anyway. :)
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
the evening was very geeky but no less fun !

It was very, very interesting to compare the two projectors side by side. They are very similar apart from the light output for me the differences were :

Black level difficult to see any differences
More 'punch' from the 750 this could be partly bulb comparison and this advantage was in the 100 camp at pjhifi and the 750 was running -11 in that dem and I have the same 100 which is 30% down on brightness since then. Doing the maths on the readings we took in room the punch is probably brightness differences

The 750 is sharper and cleaner, not night and day but an improvement

Image depth was identical to my eyes

Black level detail was better on the 750 in THX mode but no better using other settings

A step forward but not enough to warrant changing.

The velvet will be your best upgrade IMO
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
The velvet will be your best upgrade IMO


Well I had 20mtrs turn up yesterday :)

If I could just find some time this weekend I will contruct the cave and see how close I can get to your room, I'm hopeful I will see some improvement but I think I'll need a new house to do it properly :eek:
 

ReTrO

Well-known Member
I saw the HD750 at PJ Hifi's launch last September; it's a really good room and it showed. Even when I saw the HD750 in my own home for the demo, it didn't look as good as I remembered from that original demo, maybe the room, smaller screen (their screen is 2' narrower than mine IIRC) and maybe the fact that it was the first time I'd seen something that 'high end' (I had an AE2000 at the time).

The only thing I think our demo room lacks is a more light absorbent ceiling, but the matte black paint is as dark as sensible for a demo room. It would be rather oppressive otherwise. :D

That said, the black front wall (speaker fabric), black velvet curtains for the side walls and the deep red carpet help.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
The only thing I think our demo room lacks is a more light absorbent ceiling, but the matte black paint is as dark as sensible for a demo room. It would be rather oppressive otherwise. :D

That said, the black front wall (speaker fabric), black velvet curtains for the side walls and the deep red carpet help.

I actually found fitting velvet panels to the ceiling improved the look at home and you can't see what's up there without shining something on it ! Just looks dark ;)
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor

markswift2003

Novice Member
I must admit I havent used that particular fabric, that's a link I found a while ago while trying to find a suitable material for my needs.

They do a standard velvet though - maybe ask for a sample of each?

Standard Plain Velvet

I have used this:

Fablon Sticky Back Plastic Black Velour (450mm x 10m) 65217 Adhesives Glue And Sticky Stuff Sticky Back Plastic

and Goo-Flok from these guys:

:: Welcome to British Felt ::

Both are jet black, but may not suit your needs as they are sticky backed, with Goo-Flok being by far the better product - it's a proper fabric and has a very agressive adhesive,

Mark
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
This looks interesting and a reasonable price. How does it look in reality? It looks like it has a sheen on the pics.

How you get on with your material Vipers?

I haven't had time to set it up yet but its definately got a sheen to it, I'm not sure how this will affect light reflection but I'll do some tests over the weekend, I'll actually test using the back of the velvet as it is matt black lined but it may be quite reflective, I'd guess the normal velvet will be better than the crushed but I didn't want to spend too much at the moment as its only going to be used in the short term until I come up with a proper solution,
I'll report back how I find the crushed velvet over the weekend.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
There has been some debate over velvets, I use victoria cotton velvet from Whaleys. very good :smashin:
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
There has been some debate over velvets, I use victoria cotton velvet from Whaleys. very good :smashin:

Blimey, thats not cheap, I dread to think how much that cost to do your whole room, saying that its worth every penny as its pretty awesome :)
 

Rickyj at Kalibrate

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
There has been some debate over velvets, I use victoria cotton velvet from Whaleys. very good :smashin:

Thanks Dopplel,

I am familiar with your efforts (I still have the pulleys, runners etc ready to make the masking for my screen:suicide:).

I see that Devore is the forum favourite as being the best for a dedicated room, but I don't have an infinite pot of gold, and am wondering if there is a reasonable alternative to give me 90% of the effect of the Devore. Will have a look at the Victoria Cotten Velvet, thanks:thumbsup:
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Thanks Dopplel,

I am familiar with your efforts (I still have the pulleys, runners etc ready to make the masking for my screen:suicide:).

I see that Devore is the forum favourite as being the best for a dedicated room, but I don't have an infinite pot of gold, and am wondering if there is a reasonable alternative to give me 90% of the effect of the Devore. Will have a look at the Victoria Cotten Velvet, thanks:thumbsup:

RickyJ,

I have four or five different velvets at home and the best in my opinion is the cotton based ones. I am sure Devore is better but even more expensive. I started buying velvet at £11/m from dunelm, cotton and very good. Then got stuck and found Whaleys, this is Cheap guys. John Lewis and fabric shop velvet is between £25 and £50+ per meter :eek:

The panels surrounding the screen are covered in £40/m velvet and it is no better than the cotton Victoria. Cotton is good because the man made polyester based fabrics have a sheen.

If you spend £500-£1000 on inroom velvet it will be the most cost effective spend you make. Ask Vipers after he saw his own 750 in a different room :smashin:
 

Vipers

Well-known Member
RickyJ,

Ask Vipers after he saw his own 750 in a different room :smashin:

To be honest I was astounded at the difference to the overall picture just by changing room conditions, the blacks were really black compared to grey in my living room, and comming from a 9th Gen Pioneer plasma black is everything to me, hence why this weekend the velvet Bat Tent will be under construction :thumbsup:
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
To be honest I was astounded at the difference to the overall picture just by changing room conditions, the blacks were really black compared to grey in my living room, and comming from a 9th Gen Pioneer plasma black is everything to me, hence why this weekend the velvet Bat Tent will be under construction :thumbsup:


Don't make it so dark you can't admire your 'new' Arcam 600 :rotfl: Go on you know you wanna
 

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