Bass upgrade Kube 2 to BKP12-300

Gadfium

Active Member
Untitled-2.jpg


My current setup is as above. Carpeted floor, walls are bare, ceiling height 2.4 metres. A bay window fills one end of the room. The room size is 3.7M x 6.4M.
The L+R are Monitor Audio Bronze 5 floorstanders. The Centre is MA MR Centre (2.4 M from LP). The surrounds are MA Bronze 2 bookshelf speakers mounted on stands. Subwoofer duties are provided by an old Kef Kube-2 which has done decent service over the years. The AVR is a new Yamaha RX-A2A.

I've ordered and am waiting for a BK P12-300-PR as I want to get more out of the bass. The question is if it is worth keeping the Kube-2 and running it with the BK, or just run the BK on it's own. Is there any advantage to partnering the BK up or would the Kube just muddy (pun intended!:D) the waters?
 
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Gadfium

Active Member
Main use is movies (70%) and streaming music the remainder.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
That's the one. It's an old one, but it has done decent service over the years (apart from a couple of blown inrush thermistors).
I expect that the BK will be a decent upgrade!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yep the BK should be nice upgrade. The Kef you have has two drivers, one 10" active and one 10" passive radiator similar to BK design. It ain´t going to perform like BK, but you can try it still with BK, throw both in each front corners. Your receiver sees the dual subs as one (internal y-cable) so you need to place them equidistant to listener ideally. Same distance = delay for each.

However i would first listen the BK and then later add the Kef. Naturally need to run YPAO again.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
That's pretty much my thoughts.....replace the KEF and then see if adding it back into the mix adds anything. I've got a space on the right hand side (from the listeners point-of-view) where I can add a second sub.

I did run YPAO, but I then rebalanced with a SPL meter. That seems to give better results.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
Got it, installed it annnnnd.......a bit underwhelming to be honest. :-( I was expecting a lot more power from the 300mm driver.

I've moved things about a bit....I now have the florstanders nearer the edge of the media unit (approx 2.5 metres between them with the sub on the left nearer the room corner. YPAO has been run again, the distances corrected and the SPL used to balance the lot out.

I guess that my old Kef was punching well above it's weight.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Got it, installed it annnnnd.......a bit underwhelming to be honest. :-( I was expecting a lot more power from the 300mm driver.

I've moved things about a bit....I now have the florstanders nearer the edge of the media unit (approx 2.5 metres between them with the sub on the left nearer the room corner. YPAO has been run again, the distances corrected and the SPL used to balance the lot out.

I guess that my old Kef was punching well above it's weight.

Is it in same spot as Kef was? Chance in placement can make dramatic difference alone.

Did you change speaker size small after YPAO and bumped speaker crossovers to ~80hz?

Don´t say that you went to correct the subwoofer distance?
 

Gadfium

Active Member
Thanks for replying.
I tried it in the same spot and then re-arranged things. I'm going to try it on the right hand side next.

Speakers are all set to "small" and crossover is set to 80hz. The sub is connected by the single RCA (plugged into the left hand socket). Crossover to max, LF gain set to 12 o'clock position.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks for replying.
I tried it in the same spot and then re-arranged things. I'm going to try it on the right hand side next.

Speakers are all set to "small" and crossover is set to 80hz. The sub is connected by the single RCA (plugged into the left hand socket). Crossover to max, LF gain set to 12 o'clock position.

Ok when you run YPAO again don´t change the subwoofer distance as it typically shows further than it really is.

Did you turn the Filter Out/LFE? Phase 0 also assuming it´s at front wall.

If you go to Yamaha menu, subwoofer level what figure you got with that 12clock lo level gain setting? Example -6db.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
  1. Ok when you run YPAO again don´t change the subwoofer distance as it typically shows further than it really is.
    OK, I'll try this. I will run YPAO again using the multi-point this evening.

  2. Did you turn the Filter Out/LFE? Phase 0 also assuming it´s at front wall.
    Yes, LFE to "Out". Phase set to zero.

  3. If you go to Yamaha menu, subwoofer level what figure you got with that 12clock lo level gain setting? Example -6db.
    Will do once I run YPAO again.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
SW.jpg
SW1.jpg


Here we go. I re-ran the YPAO with multiple points all over the sofa that is the main listening position. It seems to have improved somewhat.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
View attachment 1564120View attachment 1564121

Here we go. I re-ran the YPAO with multiple points all over the sofa that is the main listening position. It seems to have improved somewhat.

The gain knob is set too low. You should be getting -6db on the negative side trim or few db lower. Bump up the "lo level gain knob" 2hours higher (example from 11.00 clock to 13.00) and run YPAO again. You can do 1-3 mic positions the least it allows to check it´s where we want it.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
IMG_20210902_214403.jpg
IMG_20210902_214424.jpg


Looks and sounds better.
Should I correct the SW distance in the settings?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
There is some issue with the distance. Where did you keep the mic when doing YPAO? Did you change something to earlier run? You should use tripod/camera stand. The same thing happened to other member when he put the mic on top of something. It´s so sensitive and now you need to run it again.

The level is spot on so don`t touch the knobs anymore.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
Thanks again for the help.

The mic was mounted on a small tripop, sitting on the back of the sofa at approx ear height. The first run was done at my listening position. I dad another 5 runs moving the mic along the back rest of the sofa, with a run on each sofa armrest (same height as the rear).

I also changed the floor standers position slightly. I had them toed-in and have moved them to be more straight on. The toe-in angle was too aggressive. Everything else is as-was.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Something has gone wrong cause it gave you such result as you didn`t change subwoofer distance physically either. Can you run just 3mic position if that is the minium it allows? Keep it tight like 30cm from the MLP (1st mic position). Naturally get away from the mic and speakers when it runs. Make sure room is 100% silent.

If you have couch against rear wall make sure the mic is at least 0,5meter forward to any wall as it can affect the results too.
 

Gadfium

Active Member
It can run a single run, though anything that I've seen suggests running more than one run.

The couch is pretty tight against the wall....I'll try a run with a taller tripod mounted on the seats. I'll report back when I get a chance to run this later.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The mic was mounted on a small tripop, sitting on the back of the sofa at approx ear height.
May not be the best way as you cannot guarantee that the mic was level. A mic boom stand is much easier to level and get in the correct positions. I use this one.

Amazon product
 

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