Bass / Transducers help with new Onkyo TX-NR646 required!

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by KILLER NADS, Jul 2, 2015.

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  1. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    Hi Guys,

    I actually need some help.

    Recently my AVR Onkyo 609 died (it was set up by AVR Home cinema specialist), it was running 5.1 B&W Speakers and Sub. I also had an amp running my CROWSONs transducers for two sofas.

    When i bought my new AVR Onkyo TX-NR646 and set it up. I don't think I'm getting the same "correct" amount of Bass/Sofa Vibrations as i was getting before on quiter sounds.

    I have setup my AVR doing the following:

    Crossover for Subwoofer 120Hz and the speakers 80Hz each. Does that sound right? (I'm not sure what my old settings were).

    One new setting i found on my AVR was Phase Matching Bass, its really great as it adds oomph to really low/quite sounds. Maybe like a door suddenly opening, i tried it with this and without and when using without you don't feel anything at all when the door opens in a scene from World War Z, however when this mode is on, you get a tiny judder which is very effective. However, the issue with setting this mode is that it adds way too much bass to the already loud/high sounds! Shaking up my whole house in some scenes! Hence, i thought maybe Off was the mode i should select for this! What do you think?

    Is there any other way i can get the transducers to fire at those small sounds like the door opening but stay the same on the loud sounds like car crash etc...?

    So the issue I'm having currently is that all loud and mid-loud sounds are fine, but I'm not getting any bass (and my transducers are not working) for the low quite sounds, that you just know should have bass but doesn't.

    Its hard for me to exactly compare, but to me it feels as if i had bass and transducers working for those quite sounds with my old AVR.

    The Subwoofer has a dial on the back (Phase something) and the transducers amplifier has another one for LPF. These dials have not been changed from my old AVR so they should not be causing the problem. Also my Amps volume (that is running the crowsons) is currently on full.

    Any help with this please guys?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Dolus

    Dolus
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    Killer Nads thought you sounded familiar, you had a thread running leading up to the purchase of your Crowsons.

    Now the only thing I can think of is to go into the Onkyo menu and find the level settings and turn the subwoofer level up to see if this improves things. If it does you will need to turn the volume/gain down on your sub to compensate else the bass might be overpowering.

    I assume you have ran the AccuEQ auto set up, if not then do this as it will set the levels for you though you might still have to make some adjustments.

    (Not wanting to state the obvious but in the speaker settings the sub is set YES and not NO)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
  3. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    Hahaha glad you still remember me :)

    Yep I did run the auto AccuEQ and tweaked it after. I did put the bass down from +2 to -2. However I don't think it's a volume thing, more issue seems to be with either crossover or LPF (of both which I don't understand fully). Its like the sub is receiving the correct audio to output even on low sounds with a small amount of bass but the transducers are not receiving those sounds.

    I know what you mean about not everything should shake the sofa that has bass. Maybe being a hardcore gamer I expect everything that has some sort of bass to shake the sofa just like vibration does from the game pads :)
     
  4. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    In my initial post what i mean about low quite bass sounds is actually like a scene say in Black Hawk Down (irene bass demo scene) towards the end of this scene there is a bit where they are all siting in the helicopter and you get a slight humming of the blades spinning in the background, that would be classified as a low bass scene as the bass on the blades is very minor but still there and you should be able to feel it on the crowsons! (i do feel it when i turn on Phase Matching Bass but otherwise didnt).

    Yesterday i spent a few hours going through Bass Demos and playing with the settings.

    Sometimes the settings seemed good to go but then when i changed the film again it would either seem too much or too little. :(

    The Crowson Amp LPF dial is set to about 60Hz . The Subwoofer Low pass is set to to full dial at 140Hz.



    Yesterday, when i was playing with the settings. The things i tried were:

    - Setting Phase Matching Bass (PMB) on AVR On/Off.
    - Changing the Subwoofer volume dial on the back of the the sub.
    - Changing the Subwoofer output level on the AVR.
    - The crowsons volume from remote.


    Im still confused as to whether to use PMB or not! Setting it ON adds a lot more omph to the whole scene and brings alive the small sounds/thuds which is nice and what i want. However, it also means that the loud scenes (eg. crashes, fighting, earthquakes) are all way too loud and it doesn't seem right.

    So what i did in the end, was turned it off. Put the volume dial on the sub a bit higher (still under half). Turned down AVR sub level to about -2db. This seemed to have solved the problem and work decently for nearly all the scenes i tested on the Bass Demo disk (including Incredible Hulk, Black Hawk Down (irene scene), Pulse etc...).

    However last night i watched a film called Search Party, and i was hardly getting any transducers working :( The bass was there coming out my sub, however nothing was really coming out of the sofa shaker. Even on loud scenes such as a car blowing up, was working on the sub, but only a very small movement on the transducers itself. This made me feel like the levels are not right or a setting is missing and not outputting enough power to the crowsons!

    :(


    PS:- One other thing when i change the Crowson volume from its remote to say like 24. Later when I'm using the new ONkyo AVR remote, some buttons on this remote also change the Crowson amps volume back to +1 everytime :(

    Anyway i can avoid the onkyo from changing the crowson volume?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Dolus

    Dolus
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    The only other thing I can think of is this-
    On my Buttkicker amp all the grunt is at 40Hz and below. No matter where I have the filters set the vibration rolls of very quickly above 40Hz so I have all the filters defeated. Maybe the quieter vibes you are missing are at 60Hz plus, so you could try it higher or defeated.

    As for the remote, (and assuming Onkyo hasn't changed it), it can be set to control other equipment. Doing a factory reset on the remote will clear it. You will have to look in the instruction book.
    TX-NR646 found it. :clap:

    Something else I just thought of. Your 609 had Dynamic EQ (part of Audyssey) and the default setting was on. This corrects the human perception of bass and treble dropping off, as the volume is lowered below reference level. It makes a difference to how my sub sounds and Buttkickers feel when turned off. In theory if this is the problem then after doing the auto set up then increasing the sub level in the AVR by 5dB or so should go some way to correct this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  6. Dolus

    Dolus
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  7. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    Thanks for your help. It looks like it must be that i had the DynamicEQ on on my 609!

    Ive decided to keep the Phase Matching Bass to ON. Reading the description online it seems to do a similar thing?! I am getting those low quieter sounds that have a thud/oomph in them to correctly output to the crowsons with it ON. However, problem is now that the already louder volume sounds such as earthquakes, crashes etc... are now even more louder!

    Hence, right now after further playing with the settings. I think i have it correct for the low volume sounds but its too loud for the higher sounds. One thing i think i can do to fix this is lower the Subwoofer volume dial down a bit, while also turning the Crowson Amplifier volume down to try and equal the balance. But then doing this scares me that i may loose too much Bass from the subwoofer and just rely on the crowsons bass.

    Oh man, so many options to carry on trying out. I guess will just have to try out various things and see which works best, but one thing for certain is that i want to keep Phase Matching Bass ON as it seems to make it much better!

    Thanks for the remote solution, i will try that out.
     

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