Question Basic streamer supporting gapless playback wanted

Peter Lanky

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Have have a second hifi set up in a spare room, which is where we spend evenings overlooking the garden in summer. There is no need for the quality of a Linn Streamer or even anything coming close.

The box on top (in the photo) is an iEast Soundstream, costing about £45 which connects wirelessly to my network and gives me access to my entire music collection, playing through the Amptastic amp below which is more than adequate to power my Wharfedale Diamond 10.4 speakers. Great so far except . . . the Soundstream does not support gapless playback.

Now the main problem I have is that few people seem to understand what gapless playback is, including many owners of hifi shops and manufacturers of equipment, so when I ask the question of a piece of kit I get blank looks, or else they try to guess what it means and give me a bullshit answer. For anyone who is unfamiliar with gapless playback, it is relevant to continuous albums such as 'The Dark Side Of The Moon' or live albums, where the gap between tracks on a digital file is invisible. If gapless is not supported, a gap of about half a second is inserted between tracks which is very annoying.

What I want is to find a similar piece of kit to the iEast soundstream, but which supports gapless and doesn't cost too much. Has anyone come across such a piece of kit?


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Any UPnP player when being fed music by Logitech media server will do gapless. E.g. Chromecast audio. This is a feature of LMS and how it handles output streams however not a feature of the device.

Long and short answer is UPnP can't do gapless unless you give it a single gap-free stream.
 
I'm not really sure what you are saying here. I'm not clear if the renderer or the app is the problem. I'll try another angle.

When I play music from my NAS stored in FLAC format via my Linn streamer using Bubble DS as the controller, then it plays gapless. I use Minimserver on my NAS. What I want to do is replicate this in another room at much lower cost with a suitable streamer and a suitable controller. How do I achieve this? At the moment I do not know if my iEast is the problem or the Bubble UPnP that I use to control it.

Having seen the question asked numerous times on forums, the respondent usually names their favourite controlling software app. Most of these that I have tried only allow playback from music stored on the device that the app is installed on, i.e. local, and not from a network.
 
@drdocmatt

Normally you make good sense with your contributions, but unfortunately your last post is full of holes:

Any UPnP player when being fed music by Logitech media server will do gapless.
This is simply untrue. If the UPnP/DLNA supporting streamer doesn't already support gapless playback, none of the current methods available to get them to stream from the Logitech Media Server will make it do so.


Any UPnP player when being fed music by Logitech media server will do gapless. E.g. Chromecast audio.
Not sure why you are using the Chromecast Audio as an example of a UPnP device - the Chromecast Audio definitely does not support UPnP network streaming, ie, Google Cast streaming is incompatible with industry standard UPnP/DLNA.


This is a feature of LMS and how it handles output streams however not a feature of the device.

Long and short answer is UPnP can't do gapless unless you give it a single gap-free stream.
If by this you are implying that LMS is providing a single gap-free stream to a UPnP streamer via the UPnPBridge (squeeze2upnp) LMS plugin, then you are incorrect. Descrete audio file streams, as indicated by the current playlist, are what are always provided.
BTW, neither does the CastBridge LMS plugin for Chromecast/Google Cast devices - so even the Chromecast Audio remains not being able to play gaplessly under the Logitech Media Server.


Long and short answer is UPnP can't do gapless unless you give it a single gap-free stream.
This is implies that all UPnP streamers do not support gapless playback when supplied with discrete audio files from a playlist, which is not true!

You should have instead said something like "A UPnP streamer that can't do gapless can only be rectified if you give it a single gap-free stream."

Or, referred to Chromcast/Google Cast instead of UPnP, ie, "Long and short answer is Chromcast/Google Cast can't do gapless unless you give it a single gap-free stream"
 
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I'm not really sure what you are saying here. I'm not clear if the renderer or the app is the problem. I'll try another angle.

When I play music from my NAS stored in FLAC format via my Linn streamer using Bubble DS as the controller, then it plays gapless. I use Minimserver on my NAS. What I want to do is replicate this in another room at much lower cost with a suitable streamer and a suitable controller. How do I achieve this? At the moment I do not know if my iEast is the problem or the Bubble UPnP that I use to control it.
Short answer:
The iEast is the problem as it doesn't support gapless playback as a standard UPnP renderer.

Longer answer:
Gapless playback under standard UPnP/DLNA requires support from both the UPnP control point (ie, the controller) and the UPnP renderer (ie, the streamer).

The excellent BubbleUPnP Android app does support gapless playback when used as a standard UPnP control point. The IEast Soundstream is the problem as it doesn't support gapless playback as a standard UPnP renderer.

Ironically, using the BubbleDS Next app / Linn streamer combo as an example of wanting to achieve something similar under standard UPnP/DLNA is not really correct. That is an example of OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) streaming, which uses a totally different mechanism to standard UPnP/DLNA for supporting gapless playback.
Gapless playback under OpenHome requires support only from OpenHome renderer. This is because OpenHome streamers own the current playlist, so don't require the OpenHome control point to tell them about the next track to play as they already know it.
 
OK, I'm starting to get this (a little). At this moment, it doesn't matter that the iEast doesn't play gapless, as I tend to use it on random play at the moment, and I can donate it to somebody else when I replace it. However, I do want to move away from this eventually and get a renderer that does support gapless, and then identify a controller to take advantage of this. BubbleDS is no help as it only works for Linn products.

I can't walk into a shop and ask, as the chances are that the person in the shop won't have a clue, so I need a proven recommendation of a similar product (i.e. virtually no features) that does work gaplessly at a relatively low cost.
 
@drdocmatt
Normally you make good sense with your contributions, but unfortunately your last post is full of holes:

Fair cop. Hurried answer I should have looked at some more. Ignore me, I do squeezebox and not much else but try to point people in the right direction in general....
 
@drdocmatt
Normally you make good sense with your contributions, but unfortunately your last post is full of holes:

Fair cop. Hurried answer I should have looked at some more. Ignore me, I do squeezebox and not much else but try to point people in the right direction in general....
 
No worries mate! I haven't been myself all week either - I blame all those Easter eggs :)
 
OK, I'm starting to get this (a little). At this moment, it doesn't matter that the iEast doesn't play gapless, as I tend to use it on random play at the moment, and I can donate it to somebody else when I replace it. However, I do want to move away from this eventually and get a renderer that does support gapless, and then identify a controller to take advantage of this. BubbleDS is no help as it only works for Linn products.
Yes, the BubbleDS app is strictly an OpenHome controller, so is incompatible with standard UPnP/DLNA and only works with OpenHome streamers, like the Linn's. Plus, it wouldn't have helped anyway, as OpenHome controllers don't actually get the (automatically) gapless supporting OpenHome streamers to play gaplessly, like I mentioned in my last post.

It's cousin, the BubbleUPnP app, is a standard UPnP/DLNA controller and does support gapless. Plus (& hopefully not adding to any confusion), the BubbleUPnP app also functions as an OpenHome controller and even a Chromecast/Google Cast device controller.



I can't walk into a shop and ask, as the chances are that the person in the shop won't have a clue, so I need a proven recommendation of a similar product (i.e. virtually no features) that does work gaplessly at a relatively low cost.
Indeed, not only 'lowly' sales assistants - eg, most of the UPnP/DLNA streamer reviews turn a blind eye to gapless playback support. Having said that, the vast majority of both 'boutique'/high end and mainstream manufacturers' recent (2-3 years old)/current UPnP/DLNA devices do support gapless playback as UPnP renderers (Pioneer & OPPO are the only exceptions I can think of), but of course that doesn't help you pricepoint wise.


I can think of a few options for you:

- Keep the iEast and get it to do gapless by a single gap-free stream providing method. The only method I can think of for a standard UPnP streamer is to use the foobar2000 audio file player software (with the foo_out_upnp & foo_upnp plugins) as the helper application.

However, this means having a Windows computer powered up to run the Windows only foobar2000 for as long as you want the iEast to play the single gap-free stream. Also, there's a possibilty that the iEast doesn't support receiving these 'endless'/unknown length type of streams, so it might not work anyway.


- Get a ~£30 Chromecast Audio and use that to do gapless by a single gap-free stream providing method. The Hi-Fi Cast Android app can be used for this, plus it allows you to use it to get the normally incompatible Chromecast Audio to stream audio files from UPnP/DLNA media servers, like MinimServer. The same app also supports gapless playing UPnP/DLNA renderers, but for some reason doesn't provide the same single-gap free stream fix for the non-gapless ones.

BTW, the foobar2000 method would work too, if you also use the BubbleUPnP Server to provide the Google Cast/UPnP bridge with its create a DLNA renderer function.


- Spend more (>£100) and get yourself a UPnP streamer that does support gapless playback. Cheapest reported I can find (<£250) new, Raumfeld Connector ~£120. Never used it, so I can't personally verify if it does support gapless as a UPnP renderer.


- Build your own ~£60 with a Raspberry Pi. All the popular audio distros with built-in UPnP renderer support gapless playback (eg Moode Audio, Volumio, Runeaudio, etc). There's even a headless OpenHome Player available for the Raspberry Pi, which shares the majority of your Linn's streaming functions - including Multiroom in sync!
Download OpenHome Player for your Raspberry Pi
 
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The Raumfeld Connector option seems the best one here. Paying a little more is not a problem if it works. In my experience, paying more often provides lots of bells and whistles, but doesn't provide the solution. I don't want to start ripping new single flac files but to use the ones I already have on my NAS, nor am I keen on my room looking like a teccies workshop with bits of kit all over the place.

The more I read into this subject, the stranger it seems that gapless is not the norm by default, whereas many useless features are commonplace on audio equipment/software.
 
The Raumfeld Connector option seems the best one here. Paying a little more is not a problem if it works. In my experience, paying more often provides lots of bells and whistles, but doesn't provide the solution. I don't want to start ripping new single flac files but to use the ones I already have on my NAS, nor am I keen on my room looking like a teccies workshop with bits of kit all over the place.
Still, make sure you can easily return the Raumfeld if you're not happy with it.

From what you are saying, I don't think you've quite understood how the single gap-free stream providing solutions work. You'd use your existing FLAC files in your existing MinimServer setup - the whole point is that the helper software saves you having to manually merge an album's FLAC file tracks into one great big physical whole album FLAC file!

You can test the concept for yourself, now, if you have a Windows machine and a little time to install and setup foobar2000 with the foo_out_upnp plugin (for the single gap-free stream) & the foo_upnp plugin (to fetch the files from MinimServer).
It's very straight forward - you select your FLAC files & build your playlist as normal, but instead of the player outputting to a Windows audio device, the output is streamed over the network as a continuous WAV file to the connected UPnP renderer. It works because the foobar2000 player itself plays gaplessly.


I would have gone for the OpenHome Player on a Raspberry Pi / 'mini Linn' solution, especially with its close fit to your existing Linn kit. Or rather, I've already done it:
DSC_0349.jpg

The market for RPi audio device components, including cases, is very mature, so there's no need for bits of kit all over the place. Mine is just a bog standard RPi 2 and case, since I'm using USB audio into the amp its connected to and therefore don't require a DAC for it. To connect it to your Mini-T's line-in you'll require a DAC plug on board as well a matching (a bit taller) case instead of the standard one. The real (very minor) DIY is actually in installing the software.


The more I read into this subject, the stranger it seems that gapless is not the norm by default, whereas many useless features are commonplace on audio equipment/software.
Very much so!
 
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I have a very similar situation with all my music currently stored on a Synology NAS drive in FLAC format. I haven’t added any extra software to the NAS I’m just using it’s built-in DLNA serving capability which is what I also used with a Seagate NAS that I had previously. If I’m using my Windows PC or laptop then there are a variety of programs that can be used to provide gapless playback over the network from the NAS. These include MusicBee, Foobar2000, Kodi and probably J River although I’ve not tested that program. Sadly my favourite Windows program for music playback, Dopamine, does not yet do gapless playback, inserting a gap of probably less than 1 second between tracks which is plenty long enough to spoil albums which have tracks which merge together. I therefore use Dopamine, because of it’s excellent user interface and automatic update of my NAS drive’s contents, for all albums which don’t have merging tracks and MusicBee for those that do have merging tracks.

On my main system, which coincidentally also includes Wharfedale speakers (Jade’s in my case), my preferred solution is to use an Android TV box running Kodi. I appreciate many people wouldn’t consider this ideal because controlling it requires the use of a monitor or in my case our TV but because Kodi is designed to run full-screen on a TV from a position across the room, provides a nice display of the playing album’s artwork and it’s total duration along with a full track listing and on Android is also gapless I find it ideal for music playback. The fact that Kodi is also excellent for video file playback, ripped DVD playback, movie trailers and slideshows of my photos which are also stored on the NAS is a bonus. Android TV boxes are available at prices ranging from £25 up into the hundreds while Kodi itself is free (and available for a wide variety of computer platforms including the Raspberry Pi mentioned above). The cheaper Android boxes are usually restricted to just HDMI and 3.5mm outputs but once you get up to the £100 mark you can find ones that have more outputs available. The best one that I’ve used is the Zidoo X9S which is a very nice example of what’s possible if you make one with high quality in mind. They are still available for approx £125 and you can read all about them on the manufacturer’s website.

The only proviso I would add to the above is that I really don’t like the default Estuary skin that Kodi 17 now installs. I much prefer the Confluence skin which was the previous default but it’s easy to change back to this skin via the Interface section in Kodi’s settings. When installing I usually do this before doing any other configuration of Kodi which I then find much easier to do using this skin.
 
@JBA6 while I wouldn't use Kodi for music myself you could use it without the TV if you use Yatse remote on a phone as a controller. This could work quite well for music playback IMO
 
Denon's Heos system does Gapless so does Yamaha's Musiccast. The Heos units support gapless playback of Tidal as well, both can be made into OpenHome devices via Bubble server.
You can get a used Heos Link (first version) for around £100 on eBay or the newer version for around £250. The new small Yamaha streamer is around £100 and there's also a higher quality Yamaha pre-amp WXC-50 for around £200-250
 
Having moved on a few months, I have ditched the iEast and got myself a Raumfeld connector. Not only does it have gapless playback but also superior sound. However one thing still puzzles me. Using the Raumfeld android app, everything works fine but I find the app rather fiddly and don't particularly like it. I much prefer BubbleUPNP as it has far more settings to make it's use comfortable, but using it is not giving me gapless.

Reading the posts above there seems to be some dispute as to whether BubbleUPNP supports gapless or not. If it does, there is obviously some setting that needs to be changed or some other parameter, but what is it? If there is no way it will support gapless then I'll use the Raumfeld app as fallback.
 
I don't think there's any dispute as to whether the BubbleUPnP app supports gapless or not - may be the length of some of the (er, or specifically my) posts caused a bit of confusion!

Yes, there is a setting in BubbleUPnP to enable gapless support. If you are using the latest version, select the Raumfeld renderer specific settings and find the Enable gapless control option. BTW, if the option is greyed out, then the BubbleUPnP has detected the Raumfeld as not capable of supporting gapless playback when operating as a standard UPnP/DLNA renderer.
 
I eventually found the option on Bubble UPNP to support gapless but it was far from easy. It seems strange not to have it as the default; why on earth would you NOT want gapless support?
 

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