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Barco or NEC

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by quadmad, Aug 2, 2002.

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  1. quadmad

    quadmad
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    Why do the Yanks go on so much about the NEC LC range ? They are always saying that it's better than say a Barco 808s due to the liquid cooling.

    Are they any better - something about colour ?

    Are they as readily available & servicable in Blighty as in USA ?

    How do they compare price wise second hand/reconditioned ?

    Who's tubes do they use ?
     
  2. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Speaking as an ex Barco employee I think it was the sales force. In fact it was problably and still is to do with the support that was given. The NEC staff that I came across in the field also delt with cash registers and photocopiers. Pretty much the same with Sony.
    Barco and Electrohome guys only had to do projectors.
    NEC never got the dealership thing off the ground in the UK and what their was was pretty much poorly supported.
    Barco projectors are by far the easiest to repair and if my inside knowlege is anything to go by far out sold any other projector. Most Barco customers stayed loyal when buying again.

    As reagrds colour etc I don't believe there is any thing in it.

    Your average NEC machine should be cheaper than its equavalent Barco.

    NEC CRT's are no longer supported by NEC them selves Unlike Barco.
    NEC use NEC tubes.

    Give me a Barco anyday.
     
  3. quadmad

    quadmad
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    Right that is that matter sorted

    Now, I recently read the EVENT run last year by Gordon and noted that more people liked the Cine 7 (with scaler) that the 808S that Roland was running through his PC - WHY ?

    I thought that the 808s was capable of higher resolution than Cine 7 !
     
  4. Charlie Whitehouse

    Charlie Whitehouse
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    Several reasons really.

    They weren't seen back to back in the same demo. The 808 was in a different room to the Cine 7 and was being used to demonstrate the differences between various scalers. The Cine 7 was just being used with its internal LIMO pro against an 8" Marguee and 9" Barco to demonstrate the differences that you can expect with bigger CRTs. I suspect that peoples opinions of the performance of the larger CRTs was clouded by the knowledge of their greatly increased cost. When you looked at the 9" CRT at around £30k, it didn't look that much better than the 7" Barco. Well actually it DID, but the law of diminishing returns is at work here - another £20k for the PJ, not to mention a further £30k for the S+W Interpolator is an awful lot of money to most people!!!

    The other reason people may not have given the 808 its due credit was the fact the temperature in the room it was in was over 40 degrees C!!! Speaking personally, most of us were just desperate to survive the demo and get out!! Black Hole of Calcutta had nothing on this!!! :eek:
     
  5. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    Charlie has it in one here.

    The 808 was not in tip condition and was used to demonstated how scallers performed. we spent pehaps just 15mins on each source for about 5 scallers for PAL and NTSC so all we could really do was black level and a quick greyscale set up. That particular projector sold for £2500.

    The Cine 7 is probably my favorite image from any CRT projector in its class. The internal LiMo pro has pretty good fuctiality for the money. This was Barco's demo unit and I was well used to it hving only left behind at Barco 2 months beforehand. A new Cine 7 with LimoPro will set you back £11000 inc vat. That's a lot of pennies different.

    Resolution has nothing to do with how much you like and image. In the same way that speed has nothing to do with comfort in a car. The idea is to push a CRT projector to its ideal resolution. this is the point where lines do not overlap and cause blooming. viewed at the correct distance it should no be possible to see the line structure of the image.
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The LC bit in the XG series is not for liquid cooling. It's for liquid coupling. Liquid coupling puts a glycol fluid between face of tube and first lens element. It helps stop the reflections of the light coming off tube from bouncing around and washing out darker areas of information.

    As Roland says, NEC's are rare. NEC XG's are rarer still. To be slightly controversial I'd like to mention that at a show I saw stacked Runco 1101 (Barco1609 with colour filtered mods) in one room. In another room were stacked Runco 991Ultra's (NEC XG110LC). The smaller 8" tubed NEC based set up was possibly the best image I've ever seen from a CRT....Why?

    Well, I suspect because the guy or guys who did the 991 ultra install were more competent than those that did the 1101 installation. More often than not with these devices it's not the machine that limits performance but the installer.

    NEC tubes are re-buildable by VDC I believe. They are also still available from NEC as a spare part (well the 7" ones are...never had to source an 8")

    Gordon
    Neither ex Barco or NEC.....
     
  7. X3ELS

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    So what happens if one of my tubes were to fail :(

    Elliot with his still waiting to be installed NEC10PG (9")
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  9. anwe

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    I am waiting for a retube on an XG75 that I'm buying from CRTprojectors UK, so new ~8-inch tubes are available from NEC too.

    /Anders
     
  10. quadmad

    quadmad
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    I've noticed that the 808s tubes always seen to be "NEW" from Barco, does this mean they are as yet not available reconditioned ?

    If liquid coupling is so effective why hasn't all projector manufacturers adopted it ?
     
  11. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    The Barco Graphics 808s uses a sony manufactured tube. the BG808,BD808 and BD808s all use Panasonic units.
    So far Sony are refusing to release the guns that go in the neck of CRT's so that stops them from being refubished. I'm sure this will change over time or some one will copy.

    My experience of reworked tubes at the moment is that they are an alternative but not as good as the real thing. But as usual it comes down to price.

    My prefence is to fit new tubes where possible. However it can make as much differnce as £1500 per tube and it takes a bit of convincing to see that differnce.

    Sony, NEC, Panasonic and Matsu****u (can't spell) were the only real manufactures of CRT tubes.
     
  12. quadmad

    quadmad
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    What are the fundamental differences in the graphics 808 and 808s is it down to the tubes ie 808 being electomagnetic panasonic's and 808s being electrostatic sony's?

    Are the two projectors modular ie interchangable such that a 808 could be upgraded by the addition of sony tubes?
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Roland is on holiday....

    I'll answer what I know.

    Liquid coupling isn't standard because it's mechanically complex to do and adds to cost of manufacture (hence retail)...

    808 and 808s tubes are both focused electromagnetically. It's the 800 series that are Electrostatic. You'll have to wait for Roland for a history of every 808 series unit...

    Gordon
     
  14. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
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    All the 808 series were Electromagnetic Focus (EMF).

    You can't put the Sony tube in an D/G808 or a D808s voltage and pinouts are differnt.

    A Data 808 or 808s can be upgraded to a Graphics 808 or 808s with some changes to the defelction boards and powersupply. Which is why you occasionally hear of BG808s with Panasonic/MEC tubes in. But you can't put a Panasonic tube in a true BG808s (Sony tube base).

    Some of the modules on the 808 and indeed 800 series of projectors are backwardly compatable. but often changes were done through production to improve or enhance the picture. Every barco board has a 76***** number, before you repace any thing check the numbers match.
     
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