Barco Cine 7 CRT Vs DLP dilemma - Please Help!

jester

Standard Member
Hi guys,

I'll throw this open to debte and hopefully your comments will assist in my decision making process.

I am the current proud owner of a Barco Cine 7 albeit the beast isn't currently in service.

My dilema is therefore this.... do I go through the hassle and cost of having it ceiling mounted again (my only option) together with the professional installation fees which can top the value of the Cine 7 itself these days.....

...or should I upgrade to DLP, is the picture quality catching up with CRT yet?

If so what Make/Model rivals my Cine 7 and how much is it or are they etc?

Any comments from either camp would be appreciated, I just don't know what to do for the best :confused:

Stu
 

Chris Frost

Well-known Member
The performance gap is shrinking and in some areas a single lens pj will outperform a CRT, but that's not the whole story. The two pj types can't be compared directly, so what it comes down to is acceptable compromises.

The latest generation 1080p DLPs are future proof as far as resolution goes. Those with better quality light engines will also produce a clean, sharp picture. Have a look at the Sim2 D80 (£4.5K) as a starting point. It's something you can install and set up yourself.

A pro-install is still a good idea, but rather than converging the projector the professional will do a colour calibration instead. Despite being 'plug & play' there's still a big portion of the performance that is locked away because the colour balance is generally skewed to look impressive rather than natural. A calibration allows vivid colours to stand out when needed and helps subtle shading. There's more to it than that of course.

Regards
 

jester

Standard Member
That's Great, thanks for that, I'm tending more towards the DLP solution now!

...So how does the new Sony Bravia VPL-VW200 compare?

Cheers
 

Chris Frost

Well-known Member
Given the level of technology in the projector the forum is surprisingly quiet about that model.

If it's anything like the Ruby and Pearl (VW100 & VW50) to set up then I would definitely get a pro in to install it. Despite glowing reviews for the 50 and 100 I was always disappointed with their out of box performance. I suspect it may be the same story with the 200.

Where in the country are you?
 

MATT JENNER

Active Member
A pro-install is still a good idea, but rather than converging the projector the professional will do a colour calibration instead. Despite being 'plug & play' there's still a big portion of the performance that is locked away because the colour balance is generally skewed to look impressive rather than natural. A calibration allows vivid colours to stand out when needed and helps subtle shading. There's more to it than that of course.


i agree with chris on this, i was a die hard CRT owner, but i went to PJHIFI a year ago to see the Pearl ebing demo'd, i went there purely to see how technology has moved on, as when i first had my CRT, DLP werent very good, they were lagued by the raibow effect white hot spots, and other jagged edge artifacts.

it was funny cos 9 out of the 11 people who were there at first were all CRT owners, a few of which had the Cine7.

I personally was gobsmacked at how technology has moved on, the CRT is still winning JUST!, but for setup and if you are not in a dedicated cinema room then the digital projects are ahead.

I changed when i saw the picture quality, this was a projector that was setup in 24hrs, i was amazed at the HD 1080p picture, i even took a tape measure cos i owuld be sitting 10feet away from the screen,it made a few people laugh, but i wanted to see how good the picture at a close range, i could not see any dots or pixels, the Pearl uses SXRD technology, and has a very fine resolution my first digital projector 800x600 resolution Sony Cineza,

the technology has moved on incredibly since then, if you dont mind a huge suitcase hanging from your cieling weighinh in at 30kiloplus then CRT still wins,but if like me you have low cielings and normal sized room 13x12, then the new digital projectors are the best.

As chris said, the digital ones are good out of the box, but if you want to get the best picture then an ISF calibration is the way to go, i used Gordon Fraiser at convergent AV, he did a first setup then waiting for the bulb to reach 100hrs and then did a final calibration, it was well worth the effort,
my picture quliaty on my 8frt screen beats my local cinema and even the one at lakeside, which is blurred and not converged.

peple drewel at mine, when i watch sky HD and look at a reef, it is as if you are looking through a glass window.

these are just my opionions.
 

Chris Frost

Well-known Member
I'm in Birmingham mate.

Your local dealers would be 7oaks, Music Matters and The Sound Academy then.

You would need to check if any has the Sony VW200. That company is notoriously difficult to deal with. Sony prefers dealers who can shift volume; that usually means the discounters and Internet merchants. The consequence is very few dealers with dem rooms will tie up cash in a big ticket price Sony so customers are forced to buy on blind faith. :(

Anyway, you should spend a little time having a look at what is on offer close to you to get a feel for the performance vs. your Cine7.

Have fun
 

Mad Mr H

Well-known Member
It is worth reading a little on the different types of digital.

Here is the basic DLP site info
http://www.dlp.com/tech/what.aspx

The limitations of single chip are the available colours , Similar to my plasma in its available colours and you do notice this lack of colour gradient.

The single chip DLP has the unique ability to produce the "Rainbow effect" :thumbsdow, Not seen by all so well worth watching a full film. This effect can also cause the viewer to feel tired and so makes watching a film harder going - Not everyone feels this effect, Well worth taking the family to view a full film.

Make sure you sit at the distance you will view your own screen, Many digital demos sit the audience much further back than you would in your own room, this tends to hide "digital issues".

The 3 chip DLP design is in my opinion closer to the design of the CRT - Three separate colour optic engines , Of course the limitation is still that in DLP you still have only ONE light source and that is trying to create everything, And from experience the variation in lamp emissions in digitals is the largest let down. YES I totally agree that colour balance for a digital is very well spent money, Sadly the low lamp life and rapid deterioration of many digital lamps means that a "tune up" is frequently required to maintain good colour balance, And of course every new lamp means a tune up.

Only fair to mention that Xenon arc lamps produce a better white light and more consistent through their life span. These tend to generate more heat for lower output.

DLP Halo effect - YES it does exist with digital, reduced by use of a good velvet surround screen , For CRT LC lens system reduces the Halo effect.

What about LCD?

Here is a good comparison of DLP vs LCD http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/ProjectorLCDvsDLP.htm


LCD brighter and sharper - But in reality brightness in the domestic environment is not an issue, Sharper - Well in this case that is seen as a negative point as it highlights the "chicken wire" effect - Often a slight overall defocus is used to reduce this effect.


The best thing to happen in the digital revolution has been the invention of "LCoS" based projection.

SXRD, D-ILA and HD-ILA
Silicon X-tal Reflective Display (SXRD) and Direct Drive Image Light Amplifier (D-ILA and HD-ILA) are proprietary LCoS technologies from Sony and JVC respectively

Basic info can be found here http://www.audioholics.com/educatio...es-guide-lcd-plasma-dlp-lcos-d-ila-crt-page-4

Slightly more expensive but with that a step up in quality of image - Sadly Sony seemed to employ very relaxed quality control and this led to the main area of complaint - alignment issues. The JVC units seems to suffer from consistency of lamp quality.

I do hope that in time consistency of lamp quality will improve, For me that is the area that requires most development in digital projection.


I still prefer the image given by a CRT projector, Each person will have their own opinion on that. If it is image quality that is top of the list of "Must have" then for me CRT is still top of that list.
 

jester

Standard Member
Chris & Mad Mr H, thanks for your input... :smashin:

I'm sure in the near futre you will hear from me again in the dedicated DLP forum!

Thanks again,

Stuart
 

Mad Mr H

Well-known Member
Hi Chris,

I did try and keep my "Pro CRT" thoughts to an open minded fair level.

I hope I did well at that.

Glad you like the info - I spent some time looking all that up, It is often good to go back and check things.

(Im still glad to have CRT in my cinema room)


Jester - Enjoy your Grey future. Give us a shout if you can make finger pupets in the BLACK areas :eek:. Do make sure you go a test out the DLP's, one piece of advice - There is no pot of gold at the end of the RAINBOWS :D .
 

draganm

Active Member
Why are we comparing the latest 1080P digitals to a little Cine 7 that can't even do 720P? If your going to do a valid comparison, at least use a Cine 8 or higher.
 

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