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B&W Signature 805 or Nautilus SCM1

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by bamber, Dec 4, 2002.

  1. bamber

    bamber
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    I am about to purchase either the Signature 805 or Nautilus SCM1 to use as rears. Can anyone let me know their personal experience of these speakers and the price they paid.

    Many Thanks

    Gaz
     
  2. Boozyuzi

    Boozyuzi
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    You do know that the Signature 805's have just had a price hike from £2250 to £2500 ??:eek: The Nautilus SCM1 is £1500.
     
  3. ReTrO

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    The standard Nautilus 805 are still £1,400 +£400 stands. The Signature 805's are the new refined version. There are also standard and signature versions of the SCM1. I think they are the same price as the 805's in both versions respectfully.

    Get the 805's if you have room for a pair of stand mounted speakers, if you want them wall mounted go for the SCM1. The SCM1 is basically a compromised 805 designed for wall mounting.
     
  4. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Some figures from B&W's website:


    Signature 805

    Price: £2500.
    +/-2 dB Range: 56Hz to 20kHz
    +/-3 dB Range: 49Hz to 25kHz
    +/-6dB Range: 40Hz to 50kHz
    <1% distortion: 90 Hz to 20kHz
    < 0.5% distortion: 150Hz to 18kHz


    Signature SCM

    Price: Not sure, but presumably comparable to £2500.
    +/-2 dB Range: 80Hz to 20kHz
    +/-3 dB Range: 70Hz to 42kHz
    +/-6dB Range: 50Hz to 50kHz
    <1% distortion: 100 Hz to 20kHz
    < 0.5% distortion: 200Hz to 18kHz


    Nautilus 805

    Price: £1400
    +/-2 dB Range: 56Hz to 20kHz
    +/-3 dB Range: 49Hz to 22kHz
    +/-6dB Range: 42Hz to 30kHz
    <1% distortion: 90 Hz to 20kHz
    < 0.5% distortion: 200Hz to 18kHz


    Nautilus SCM1

    Price: £1500
    +/-2 dB Range: 80Hz to 20kHz
    +/-3 dB Range: 70Hz to 22kHz
    +/-6dB Range: 50Hz to 30kHz
    <1% distortion: 100 Hz to 20kHz
    < 0.5% distortion: 200Hz to 18kHz


    Obviously one should always take manufacturers' figures with a large pinch of salt, but I think that gives you an idea of what they're aiming at. SCM versions aren't intended to go below 80 Hz, while 805 versions deliver some (for the size) not unreasonable bass. The Signature version does sound significantly better - even just looking at the numbers there's obviously lower distortion in the upper bass and the tweeter going way up into the ultrasonic - but is also a lot more expensive, largely (I suspect) because of the amazing high gloss finish on the case.

    Bear in mind that you can get a pair of Nautilus 804s for the same price as Signature 805s. I don't know how they compare in quality.

    The 805 versions obviously need stands. I'm not persuaded that the official B&W stands are worth paying £400 for.

    I've listened to the Nautilus 805s extensively and I think they're good value, but some people disagree. (Our own Uncle Eric especially seems to think that the entire Nautilus 800 series represents really rather mediocre value for money. It has to be admitted that if you're going to be using 805s with a subwoofer rather than by themselves then getting a pair of passive M&K 2510s from Uncle Eric is probably a better deal. If you haven't bought a power amp yet then a pair of active M&K 2510Ps is likely to be an even better deal).
     
  5. bamber

    bamber
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    Thanks everyone for the detailed replies, I am using 803s and a HTM1 already so which do you think would suit best? I am using CDM1SE for rears at the moment but will sell these after the upgrade.
     
  6. ReTrO

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    Personally I would save up a 'bit' more and look at another pair of N803's. Out of the N805 of SCM1 I would use the N805.
     
  7. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Gazza:

    I'm considering buying a pair of 803s and an HTM1 myself - I'd be interested to hear your opinion of them.

    At the risk of confusing the issue farther, had you thought about going down the di/bi/tripole route for surround speakers? Tonal match with the fronts probably wouldn't be as good, of course, but some people like the effect.



    Retro:

    £2100 is not exactly a "bit". Maybe he ought to use his existing 803s as rears and install some 802s at the front. Only £6000. ;)

    Putting a new pair of 803s up on stands to get them comfortably above the height of the back of the sofa and aiming them downwards sounds a bit scary. :eek: Are there any speaker stands designed to raise floorstanders like that?
     
  8. ReTrO

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    You could make a pedastal for each speaker and cover it with the same finish as your floor so it looks like it should be there (carpet or matching wood finsih).

    We used to run big demos at work using the N802/3 at the front and N803/4 at the back without stands, sounded fine.
     
  9. bamber

    bamber
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    Nicolas,

    I have to honest and say that I didn't compare the 803's to any other speaker in this price bracket, not very objective (I will probably get slated from the experts for this!). As a novice my priorities are probably all wrong and thats why I am asking your advice.

    I bought the 803s (£2800) from a friend who was moving to the US, they were only 5 months old.

    I am using these in my family room which has a 18' ceiling and was worried that the bass would be out of control. Decided not to add a sub at this stage for that reason. The 803's have worked a treat and look good in the room. I upgraded my speaker cable to Nordost Red Dawn and the soundstage is amazing.

    I then ordered a HTM2 (list price) from my local dealer which is a really good centre but felt it lacked the depth for the 803's. So I ordered a HTM1 (list price) after a week. I will either keep the HTM2 for a centre rear or sell it and get another HTM1 when I upgrade my amp.

    The HTM1 is brillant and dialogue is now crystal clear, I no longer suffer from the fatigue that crept in after a couple hours listening with the cdm range.

    The 803's are expensive and I know you could probably get speakers that sound as good for less money but the B&W's look good as well.
     
  10. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Well, I've yet to find anything that sounds as good for less money. Some ProAc speakers I heard the other week weren't too far off. But I'm still looking.


    Good to know.


    Hm. I would have expected bass to be more "out of control" in a small room than a large one. :confused: Anyway, modes between floor and ceiling can be almost eliminated by simply fitting some good carpet with a nice spongey underlay.
     
  11. bamber

    bamber
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    What are you thinking about for rears and sub?
     
  12. common

    common
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    For someone with a low / mid range system, like myself, can you explain the diffference £2000 rears make to say £500 rears ?

    Is there really that much going through them to warrant the expense ?
     
  13. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    Gazza,

    I would certainly be interested in the HTM2. I have PMed you.

    Regards,

    LG

    (I don't think this contravenes the rules in the Classifieds as it isn't there but please delete this post if inappropriate)
     
  14. MikeA

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    lovegroova.

    I noticed in another thread that you have 805 Signatures, did you compare them with regular 805's and was there a significant difference in sound quality.

    Also would you mind saying which amp are you are using.


    Cheers
    Mike
     
  15. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    The Sigs, IMO, are significantly better than the standard 805s. 'More of everything good' is probably the easiest way to describe the difference.

    And, yes, I love the way they look too (sacrilege, the purists cry!)

    I am using a TAG AV32R into a Rotel RMB 1095 power amp.
     
  16. ReTrO

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    The new Birds Eye red finish is just lovely, as is the Tigers Eye grey, they'ed look great a in a nice livingroom environment.

    I think I'd stick to the standard black if I could afford them for my HC.

    Where are you getting them from/listening to them?

    I'm pretty sure my old work place has them on demo, they've got pretty much everything else (N800 wise).

    www.soundgallery.co.uk in High Wycombe
     
  17. MikeA

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    I agree, they look the biz, must try and hear them soon.

    Do you find them OK for Movies, I assume you have a decent sub and did you opt for the B&W stands?


    Cheers
    Mike
     
  18. Nobber22

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    I trust their shop is better than their web-site - one of the most irritating I've tried. Just a couple of pages with one photo and lots of links which are aren't even active!:mad:

    I know you used to work there Retro and I'm sure they are good at their jobs. They just need to spend some time on their site. :)

    Rant over.
     
  19. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    I don't think they do the sigs in standard black, but the Red finish that I have looks just great in my living room with it's yellow/terracotta colour scheme. The yellow drivers actually match very well!

    Mine came from Acoustic Arts in Watford but I have used The Sound Gallery's excellent in-car department in the past, highly recommended. I was lucky enough to pay only £2,250 for mine!

    A maxim of mine is that if something is good for music, it will be more than good enough for movies, and that is true in this case. As you can see above, I am after an HTM2 (sadly B&W are not doing and HTM2 Signature, only the HTM1) which should match the sigs a bit better than the current CDMCSE.

    I have what I reckon to be a decent sub in a RELQ200E but no doubt the Velodyne mafia in here will disagree. Again, the relatively small size of my room means that the small box of the REL fits in well.

    I am using my old Target stands at the moment (£150 a few years back). I did borrow a pair of the HNE stands but I couldn't really hear any difference, certainly not £600 worth. Again, others may disagree.

    When I first brought a pair of these home for a demo, I sat transfixed, for 4 hours just listening. That may give some indicatio of how good I think they are...
     
  20. ReTrO

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    Feel free to rant. I did about it for a while, was gonna redo it with someone else at work, but it was being done by someone else last time I heard. It's been due for an overhaul for some time now.
     
  21. ReTrO

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    I think you can get them in the special finishes or the standard wood finishes.

    I know you can with the N800, cause them to be £11,000 or £16,000. Mind that is the Signature 800 and the N800.

    ED: just looked on the B&W website and it seems you can't, I'll bet they'ed do a special order though.

    ED: new website design here.

    http://www.soundgallery.co.uk/newsite/
     
  22. NicolasB

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    Speaking for myself I would jump at the chance of being able to get Signature 805s in plain wood finish (and hence much closer to the price of the standard 805). I'd love a plain wood finish HTM speaker with the Signature tweeter too. But I've never heard anyone suggest that such a thing is possible. How would one go about getting such a "special order"?
     
  23. ReTrO

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    Speake to your local B&W Prestige/Nautilus dealer and ask them to look into it.

    I'd have thought that the Signature 'parts' could be put into a 'standard' 805 enclousre.
     
  24. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    I have it in my head from somewhere that the Signature 805 actually won't fit in a standard 805 box because it's physically larger.
     
  25. ReTrO

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    Size and driver size specs are the same. The only difference is the weight, the Signature is 9.5kg and the N805 is only 9kg.
     
  26. lovegroova

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    IIRC the magnet on the woofer of the sig is some 40% larger than on the starndard 805. Would this mean it wouldn't fit??
     
  27. ReTrO

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    Depends on the matrix bracing configuration inside. It wouldn't suprise me.

    The speaker enclosures are made in Denmark, by the way.
     
  28. Boozyuzi

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    Well, I am a happy man tonight !:D

    Just back from a 350 mile round trip to pick up a pair of 18 month old standard Nautilus 805's + their stands for the lovely price of £750 !

    Stunning !!
     

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