B&W pv1

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by sian568, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. sian568

    sian568
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    Hi everyone, im thinking of splashing the cash on a b&w pv1 in black,just wondering if anyone had any comments on it? Is it really worth the money?

    My Setup: samsung LE52M8,pioneer VSX-1017AV,Pioneer dv-600AV,xbox 360,PS3,full b&w 600 series.
     
  2. Nimby

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    If you do a forum search with your thread title you will find this sub has been heavily discussed here. :)
     
  3. bsimmer3000

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    I also have purchased this sub but pick it up in a few weeks. i have done a lot of review searching and it seems to get very good reviews. but be aware that you can get a better sub which goes lower with less money. but if it's style and good sound quality ya want then ya cant go wrong with it. musicly it's awesome and with movies it's acceptible but dont expect earth moving bass from it. my friend has this with the m1 speakers and it does work very well but then again the room was maybe only 12ftx12ft.
     
  4. Member 96948

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    Here is a compilation of some of this forums favourite subs. This matrix describes the maximum volume a sub can output for a predefined limit on distortion. Google "CEA 2010" if you want to know more, but I will add that this doesn't paint the whole story, but merely a very interesting part of it.

    [​IMG]

    Basically, it tells you which at what level a sub starts to distort too much to be considered 'clean'. It breaks this down into individual frequencies and then into Ultra-low and Low bass - the slightly warped reasoning being that music is less worried about the Ultra-low frequencies, than the Low-bass.

    None-the-less, the PV-1 is at the top, a rather large (but £430) sub is second, a £300 compact sub is third and a £460 compact sub is fourth. Make up your own mind, but ask yourself how much style is worth? Remember, you're not being asked to wear it down the pub.;)

    Russell
     
  5. skazz

    skazz
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    just out of interest... this table gives a very clear view of how low a sub goes, but when I read reviews of subwoofers I get the impression that just as important (particularly for music) is how fast a subwoofer is... i.e. how well the built-in amp is capable of controlling the woofer cone when you ask it to do more complex things than create single frequency test tones.

    How does that concept slot into your test suite?
     
  6. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    As Russ mentions this chart only paints part of the picture but I know from other trusted forumites that all the subs on that list are agile and the PV1 certainly isn't more agile than the best there.

    One advantage of the PV1 is that because it doesn't go so low it would probably be easier to integrate with less risk of problematic room modes. However with a little knowledge and effort these things can be improved or resolved.

    If I had to choose a compact sub then the SVS SB12 would be top of my list but I am lucky not to have such constraints in my main listening room. I can't deny the ball looks nice though, especially in black :smashin:

    Adam
     
  7. Member 96948

    Member 96948
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    As Adam says, it doesn't, but the outputs at the limits of acceptable distortion are the proverbial first hurdle. If it can't reproduce a note cleanly, who cares how fast it did it?

    Fast bass itself, is also a much misunderstood, or should I say misused, term. There is a good article on it here which attempts to deal with a number of the common misconceptions surrounding it. Dating as it does from 1999, it is as concerned with bass/mid frequencies as sub bass, but the fundamentals hold true.

    Anyhoo, the most 'musical' and 'fast' subs are normally the ones that are the easiest to integrate and that includes into the room as much as the rest of the system. I feel it's no coincidence that the easiest subs to integrate tend to be the ones offering the least truly deep output with which to trouble the rooms natural resonances. They therefore sit easiest in the room for minimum effort.

    Thing is, these are also the subs that through lack of serious deep output, tend to be the ones with the highest distortion figures down low, so you can be in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, when buying one of these designs.

    A lot of the results to which we refer come from a Finnish Language AV forum, although most of it is posted in English. It's worth taking the time to understand what the measurements mean. All the info on how to is in there.

    Russell
     
  8. AngelEyes

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    I really find those tests useful and they aren't all just about depth and output, some may even give you an idea of 'speed', 'overhang' etc. I have to admit I don't completely understand all the tests myself even after reading the gude but they do offer handy hints like 'lower is better' so at least you can compare other subs, even if you have no idea what you are comparing :D

    Some like THD and Spectral Contamination ('self noise') are more obvious and the results are often suprising.

    An equally useful tool is of course your ears but don't waste your time listening in a showroom, it needs to be in your own room to give you any real idea what it will be like. If you spending that much a home demo shouldn't be a problem for a PV1.

    Adam
     
  9. rich521

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    Living in a flat, I cannot house a sub with too much bass, but have 4 MA GR10s, a centre and a PV1, fed from an Arcam solo movie, and I like the results a lot, I got the pV1 second hand, so did not pay the almost £1000 price. Now if only I can get the hdmi pass through on the Arcam working properly ? any ideas ?
     
  10. Adrianr

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    Where is the best pace to get one of these PV1 Subs from?
     
  11. McFaber

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    Best ask this question in the Arcam thread IMO..;)
     
  12. spinaltap

    spinaltap
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    I bought an ex-display PV-1 earlier this year for £700. It's currently hooked-up with a Yamaha RX-V2700, plus Mission E81's and E8c. I'm very pleased with this set-up.

    I wanted a sub that integrated with the rest of the system - not one that produced gut wrenching/earth shaking bass above all else.

    Even so, I had previously heard two PV-1's with M1's and an Arcam Solo Movie demonstrated in one of the larger halls at the NEC. This system made its presence felt from two halls away - so don't let anyone tell you that the performance of the PV-1 is limited by the relatively small size of your living-room.

    I certainly be daisy-chaining a second PV-1 in my system when I locate another ex-display model.
     
  13. callahan

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    Forgive me for being a bit daft, but doesn't that mean the pv1 is the 'best' of the bunch. Obviously it's massively more expensive, it doesn't go quite as low as the others, but still it comes top, how come?

    Surely looking at the figures the Monolith should easily be top?
     
  14. Nimby

    Nimby
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    The PV1's true position in that list is measured with the AVg. (average) figures over on the right.

    The PV1 is last of four in both Ultra low and Low-bass performance averages.
     
  15. callahan

    callahan
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    Told you I was a bit daft :oops:

    The Monolith walks it then. My wife definitely needs a new side table, she just doesn't know it yet ;)
     
  16. AngelEyes

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    Spoken like a truly brave man :D
     
  17. Nimby

    Nimby
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    But he's not daft. :)
     
  18. skazz

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    Saw the PV1 in shiny black in a shop yesterday. Soooooooo pretty. Makes all other subwoofers look industrially boring.

    Who needs powerful deep bass from a big wooden box when you can have slightly less powerful less deep bass (ok, according to Ikka just about enough deep bass for a small room) but a wonderful shiny glossy stylish artform gracing your home.
     
  19. Nimby

    Nimby
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    If I wanted shiny black balls I'd buy some footballs and a spraycan.

    But if I wanted a real subwoofer... :devil:
     
  20. callahan

    callahan
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    Me :devil: (just hope she never sees a PV1 - 'we could have had that nice pretty one instead of this..... monolith' :D)
     
  21. drac

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    I've been following this thread for a while and there have been some interesting points of view on subs. As you can see from my sig, I've got the PV1 sub in my set up. It's in a room 14ft x 12ft and sounds great!:thumbsup:

    I must say that I've only limited experience of subs - I demoed the PV1 against a couple of other subs - a REL one at £600 (not sure on model number) and the MA RSW600 (I think - it's the one that goes with the radius system). Even the Mrs found the PV1 to be the better sub with tighter more controlled bass.

    I've never heard the Monolith or SVS subs, but tbh if the bass output is greater than the PV1 it would be too much for us! SWMBO is always telling me to turn it down!:(

    One day I'll give one a try - maybe at upgrade time in a couple of years;). But for now, the PV1 does kick out substantially enough bass for our use:clap:

    And it does look smart in black:D
     
  22. bsimmer3000

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    what the hell does SWMBO mean lol. i know its ya girlfriend or wife but whats it stand for?

    Pick up me pv1 in a few days hoprfully and cant wait to get it connected. the demos i had of this sub were fantastic and def wouldnt need any more bass than that can put out at moment.

    I heard it in a room about 12x24ft and it filled that space well and i didnt even get cheeky and turn it up that loud.
     
  23. AngelEyes

    AngelEyes
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    She Who Must Be Obeyed

    It seems to be a common mosconception that deeper bass means louder bass which is completely untrue. A sub that goes deeper merely reproduces more notes from the recorded material than one that can't go as deep. Usually because it is less strained in doing so the notes are less distorted and sound much better and more distinct. You also get to feel some of the notes that the ear cannot hear and of course there is the pleasure of room pressurisation that must never be forgotten :D

    Do you think a tweeter that picks out more high end detail will make your HT louder? Of course not, only the volume control can do that and you or perhaps in some homes, SWMBO has control over that ;)

    Adam
     
  24. skazz

    skazz
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    SWMBO was coined in the Rumpole series, iirc. Books from which a TV series followed.... I believe that in the entire series we never once actually got to see "her", which greatly increased effectiveness of said expression.
     
  25. drac

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    It's a fair point on the low end bass, room pressurisation and overall bass impact - but that's what I'm worried about! The PV1 (IMO) kicks out fair old whack at reasonable volumes!

    One thing that annoys me though, is that when I've got a film on at 'decent' volumes I usually get told to turn it down (which is fair enough when she's on the phone to her mum:D) but when she's got the Chili Peppers on it HAS to be on at what I would call 'crazy' volumes - it's a good job I like them!

    At the end of the day it's all about having fun and when she's out do I have fun, lol;):rotfl: did I say before it looks great in black? We also get people who come round asking 'what's that?' It always gives me great pleasure giving them a demonstration:devil:
     
  26. AngelEyes

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    I agree, in black it looks great but I imagine in some homes it might look more out of place than a 'wooden sidetable' :)
     
  27. Andywilliams

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    People used to say that when they saw my pc-ultra before i hid it behind the plasma :D.
     
  28. steviep68

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  29. roba666

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    Recently got a PV1 and FPM 4,5 & 2 speakers, great all round sound. Room is 12ft x 21ft, sub in the middle. Bass goes plenty deep enough, tight and well controlled for music too.
    Love the auto sensing switch on/off and looks far better in black too.
    A very girlfrind friendly system.

    btw stand is homemade work in progress
     

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  30. Adrianr

    Adrianr
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    Got my PV1 yesterday, £650 on ebay.
    2 months old............
    Looks great in my room & sounds even better, just need to try it out fully at the weekend when the neighbours are not about:clap:
     

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