1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

B&W Nautilus Vs. B&W Nautilus Signature

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by lfletcher, Aug 9, 2003.

  1. lfletcher

    lfletcher
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    2,123
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +339
    Ive been demo'ing some B&W speakers but would like the assistance of the greater knowledge of the forum.

    Had pretty much made up my mind on getting some Nautilus 803's, 805's and a HTM1 (havent managed to demo the HTM1 yet, but did the demo with a HTM2) to replace my existing Mission 782, 780 and 78C.
    I preferred this setup compared to Tag and Shahinian which I also demo'd at the same time.

    But after reading another thread on here, I also wanted to demo some 805 signatures with a signature HTM1. Managed to demo some 805 sigs on the front, a HTM2 (again) and some non-Nautilus B&W's on the rear. Not ideal, but did give me a flavour of what the 805's were like, and I also liked them.

    Ideally I need to find a dealer which can do a back to back demo of both setups, but I dont think that will be an easy task.

    The speakers are going to be used 70/30 in favour of movies over music. At the moment I live in a flat (so the room isnt massive), but will hopefully be moving to a house fairly soon.

    Has anyone got either of these 2 setups (or something close) and can give an indication of what they prefer and why?

    Thanks
    Laurence
     
  2. Lintone

    Lintone
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    In my opinion I`d go the 803 / HTM1/ 805 route. This has got far more scale and fantastic levels of information. The 805 sig. are very, very good but as you know don`t have the scale which I think you`ll require.

    Regards,

    Mark
     
  3. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,878
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +566
    My opinions of the Tag 5x100R amplifier are already well known around here, I suspect, so I won't get into that again.

    I've only auditioned Signature 805s once, but was able to do a fairly lengthy side-by-side comparison with nautilus 805s and 803s. My conclusions were:

    a) The Sig 805s are a big step up in quality from the N805s (but then again, £2500 vs £1400...).

    b) The sig 805s are not an especially good tonal match for the 803s, but the nautilus 805s are very similar (to 803s), so an 803-front, N805-rears system would work well. (I think the N805s are plenty good enough for rear duties).

    c) In a straight comparison between Sig 805s and 803s I liked the 803s better, but I had to think about it. They are very different: the sig 805s have beautiful treble, but a slightly thin, even slightly distorted, mid-range. The 803s have (comparatively) a slightly muffled treble, but a much fuller, rounder mid-range and (unsurprisingly) better upper bass response.

    (When comparing prices, remember to factor in the price of the stands for sig 805s).

    d) Signature speakers are immeasurably much prettier. :)

    I've not listed to a Signature HTM for more than a few seconds, so I can't really comment on that first hand, but I recall reading somewhere that it and the HTM1 are the same speaker apart from the tweeter. So your extra £1000 isn't buying you all that much more. (By contrast the sig 805s have barely a single component in common with the N805s).
     
  4. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    yes nic, many don't share the same opinion you often repeat but Mark is talking about a different (and better) amp!;)

    I like the sig but do prefer the 803 etc but BEE careful about amp, especially if want to upgrade to 800 / 802 at a later stage. These are not the easiest load and throwing power at them isn't always the answer.
     
  5. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    I have to say I agree with Nic on his comments....the Signatures are very good indeed,but that is reflected in the price.
    I also think that the Nautilus speakers are not well matched with Tag power amps,as IMHO,they just don't have the current delivery or control necessary...I use Krells with mine,and found these much superior to the Tags.
     
  6. lfletcher

    lfletcher
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    2,123
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +339
    Thanks for the comments guys. All appreciated.

    NicolasB - how do think a Sig805 + Sub would compare to the 803?
    I also agree that the Signatures have some much funkier finishes.

    So thats 2 for the 803/805 combo. hmmmm. If I do go down that route there is a chance that an 802 will be added (some time in the way distant future), so a wise amp decision is needed.

    I was getting used to the idea of stand mounts all the way round, but I will have to have a good listen to both setups.

    Have no fear. The Tag power amp is on its way out. In fact I have another thread on the amp forum discussing just that, so if you'd like to throw your hat into that arena as well, its always appreciated.

    Laurence
     
  7. bamber

    bamber
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    212
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Laurence

    Would agree with the 803/HTM1/805 route. I recently upgraded my front speakers to 802s and am using 4 x 803's and a HTM1. I'm using a Bryston 6B SST to drive the 802's and think I should have got a bigger amp as recommended by Mark from Lintone.

    The 4B SST/6B SSTs are perfect for the 803's and HTM1.
     
  8. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,878
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +566
    Even my faithful old Bryston 9B-ST drives my 803s fairly comfortably. (Mind you, I don't listen at very high volumes as a rule).


    I don't think the presence of a subwoofer would cause me to significantly modify my previous assessment. It comes down to whether you care more about treble or midrange.
     
  9. bamber

    bamber
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    212
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    I noticed a huge difference moving from the Marantz amp to the 6B SST. Everything tightened up and drums etc became much more life like. I noticed the difference even at low listening levels.

    All the dealers that I use have recommended bigger amps than the 4B SST for the 802's. I have spoken to a couple of other 802 owners who really think that 7B/14B SST suits the 802s. Obviously the big Krell FPBs and Bonnecs are going to be better still with the potential to drive the big 800s
     
  10. mark67

    mark67
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Haven't you noticed that when it comes to reccommending speakers it is a very personal thing?
    What I like you don't and so on. :eek:

    So to the subject in hand, The BW 805 Sig's are a completely different animal from the Std 805's. I auditioned them back to back with a Belcanto Power amp/ Tag Pre and CDT and the sig's where by far the better sound. So the should be at £1000 more.

    Another good 'un was the Wilson benecsh Arc. Well funky :rotfl: .
    It really is down to you lfletcher, If your gotta get some BW stand mounters, the 805 Sig's are the only way to go.

    I have never heard a Tag Power amp, so I ain't gonna comment.

    ATB.
     
  11. lfletcher

    lfletcher
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    2,123
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +339
    Its a shame B&W dont do a Nautilus 803 Signature, then all my issues would be solved.

    You certainly seem to like Bryston's. Funny, all the dealers I have spoken to havent rated the Brystons as good as say the Theta, Krell or Chord. Interesting.

    I still have an issue with the US stuff and how its sooooo much more expensive here than over in the US. Has anyone ever looked into importing US amps?

    Mark, I know its a personal thing, but I was trying to gauge reaction to the 2 setups. If people told me Id be insane to choose one over the other, I wanted to see if I agreed.
     
  12. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    Just a small idea but have a look at Bang&Olufsen Beolab 5 speakers I have heard they kick the ass of Nautilus and they are active so no need for seperate amps I havent heard them yet but should soon and will let you know when i do!
     
  13. Lintone

    Lintone
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    There`s the small matter of matching rears and centre....No two pairs of B&O speakers are "voiced" the same. For example BL 5`s and BL 1`s sound completely different to each other........

    Regards,

    Mark
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,981
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,785
    I'm in the 805sig and sub camp. Should be cracking. In a previous life I played 805sigs against 803's and I'd have had the 805sigs, without a sub.

    Mark, I'd think that MrDragon might have been playing devils advocate....
     
  15. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    I would aim for the 600w Bryston. The 300w will do the 803, just about, but if in the future...., the 600w though he 'same quality' does sound much better because of headroom.

    Gazza, we told you!
     
  16. bamber

    bamber
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    212
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    You were right Beekeeper, unfortunately I had already purchased the 4B/6B SST amps before upgrading to the 802's and thinking about the 800's. I should have ask for your advise alot earlier.
     
  17. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    328
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +1
    For what it's worth (IMO, speaker choice is heavily dependant on room acoustics and personal taste),

    I listened to 802's and Sig805's and spent an interesting evening swapping back and forth.

    I've always wanted 802's so I was biased :) before the AB demo.

    For me the Sig805's were so much clearer and more detailed than the 802. Obviously the bass didn't compare but a good sub can fix that.......

    I bought the Sig805's....

    Gary
     
  18. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    What I've heard so far about the B&O actives(and no I haven't heard them personally so it's secondhand)is that they are pretty good,but have some flaws in the mid and treble,which they really shouldn't have at that price level.....the bass allegedly is very good,but that's a lot easier to achieve with active crossovers.
     
  19. lfletcher

    lfletcher
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    2,123
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +339
    At last Gordon (and Gary) turn up to champion the sig805's :D

    Gary, have you added a sub to your system, if so which one? Also did you get the matching HTM1 signature centre?

    I believe I know which B&O's you are referring to and I dont like the look of them for one. Also I thought B&O stuff tended to be all show and no go?
     
  20. Ian J

    Ian J
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    25,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    I thought that it was Philips innards with a pretty body
     
  21. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    328
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hi lfletcher

    "At last Gordon (and Gary) turn up to champion the sig805's "

    LOL

    At least Gordon's opinion is professionally unbiased. That's the problem with this sort of thing. Everyone inevitably raves about the kit they've got. I only posted because I did do a careful comparison between 802 and Sig805 and I thought the difference was remarkable.

    I haven't got the SigHTM yet - I'm hoping that's later this year.

    I was going to upgrade my sub (I had my eye on Godzilla) but I found careful repositioning of my existing REL Storm was actually more than adequate for now- getting it away from the walls made a huge improvement.

    As I've said many times before (to the extent of being boring I suppose). Ignore what everyone tells you. Trust your ears in your room (that last bit is especially important for full-range floor standers).

    Cheers
    Gary
     
  22. bamber

    bamber
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    212
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Speaker choice is a personal thing. I also demoed the Sig 805s/803s in a A/B test in my room and preferred the 803s. Even though I was offered a second hand pair of Sig 805s for £1850 including HNE stands.

    A sensible person wouldn't purchase speakers based on what we say here. What we get are years of experience from the likes of Gordon/The Beekeeper/alexs2, i.e.the right amps to partner our speakers. Some of the brands I hadn't heard of before they kindly offered their advice. I prefer this advice as I feel sometimes dealers push the product with the biggest margin for them.

    Also people like NicolasB have visited most of the dealers in his area, and carried out countless demos. This lets us know what is currently available so we can then carry out our own research.

    So even if some of the comments are personal there is alot to be learned from them.
     
  23. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Gary...you may have noticed that I did state that my comments about Krell were indeed my personal feelings,but I have compared them extensively with Bryston,Chord,etc,and always make the point of advising people to do their own listening,and only to use other's experiences for information.
    I don't see any value in raving about your own gear,as someone will always have better equipment somewhere,and personal opinions are always just that...
     
  24. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,878
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +566
    I can understand why people might prefer Sig 805s to 803s; personally I don't. Matter of taste. This is why you need to demo things. :)

    I would say, though, that if you are auditioning 802s then be very careful about checking what's being used for amplification.
     
  25. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    328
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hi Alex2,

    I wasn't aiming my comments at anyone but me.

    They certainly weren't a reference to your posts - hope I didn't cause any offence.

    What I was trying to say was that I am almost reluctant to post about stuff I own as it often reads like "my kit is the best, you should buy it too".

    Speakers are probably the most subjective, personal items in a hifi/HT setup.

    I also demod the 803's and loved the smooth warm sound. Much better than what I had. When I compared them to the Sig805's and the 802's in my room though I just found they did not have the detail and resolution of the Sig805's using the same electronics. In the end that's what swung it for me.

    Gary

    :D
     
  26. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Np Gary...none taken!
     
  27. lfletcher

    lfletcher
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    2,123
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +339
    Here's a rather odd thing.

    Trying to get a demo of a Signature HTM with the Sig 805's and its proving difficult. I have one dealer telling me that the HTM doesnt work very well with the 805's, which I find difficult to believe - what I am supposed to use as a centre with it then?
    And why are they part of the same range?

    Gary, Gordon - have either of you heard any mismatch with the Sig centre and the 805's?
     
  28. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Thats a very odd comment for a dealer to make,and certainly one I find a bit hard to believe....when I was buying all my speakers,my local Nautilus dealer(Audiofile in B.Stortford)had no problems in providing a demo of the standard models,although I do know that some dealers are having problems in getting hold of the Signatures.
     
  29. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    328
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hi Lfletcher,

    I've not heard anything about SigHTM and Sig805 mismatches.

    My local dealer only has the HTM1 in stock. I've asked him to get hold of a SigHTM from B&W for comparison. As soon as I hear them side by side I'll let you know !

    Cheers
    Gary
     
  30. lfletcher

    lfletcher
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    2,123
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Surrey
    Ratings:
    +339
    Cheers Gary, I await with interest.

    Over the weekend I visited another dealer and he said the same thing about the Sig HTM and the Sig 805's. He said that the centre is too overpowering for them and is much better matched to the Sig 800's. As this is the 1st dealer I have found that actually have a Sig HTM I'm going to book a demo to hear for myself.
     

Share This Page

Loading...