1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

B&W - Denon ??

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by s2000, Aug 5, 2004.

Tags:
  1. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi,

    I have the B&W 602 s3 speakers, and I need a new receiver.
    One problem, I haven't got a very big budget.

    I really like Denon (sound), and I noticed they had a new receiver: the AVR-1705.
    Now my question is: is it enough for the 602's, or do they deserve better ?? Can the 1705 provide enough power to get a decent volume without clipping ??

    So, is it worth it, or is it a no-go ?? Do they match, or not ??


    Link: Denon AVR-1705 and click on the picture of the receiver.
     
  2. cityonfire

    cityonfire
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    im afraid the 602's deserve better i was just made redundant from the specalist Hi-Fi store i worked at(owner retired) Denon don't tell the truth with the power ratings they bend them. They don't strictly lie so they can get away with it. To me its still lying. Its just to make cheaper amps appear better than they are. I mean think about it a true 110 watt into all 6 channels at the same time would cost alot more then what they are asking for it. example 110w x 6 usually means its 110 watts and has 6 channels of amplification. Obvious you say! Think about how its worded. It does not say its 110 watts into all 6 channels at the same time. Generally that figure is for stereo perfomance 110 watts into 2 channels. Really when all six channels are being driven it will probally drop right down to between 50-65 watts a channel depending on your speakers. Hope thats understandable, it can be head doing trying to explain figures to people. And that info is from an ex DENON rep i know who now actually works for B&W. Don't get me wrong its not a bad amp and will do the job but it will probaly struggle at higher volumes. Personally i would recommend a Yamaha as they are one of the few companys who do quote proper figures like Arcam and Rotel
     
  3. Falp

    Falp
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,685
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Ratings:
    +25
    Yamaha has the same figurres all channel driven than the Denon.
    But Denon has better sound.

    Both Denon 1804 or Yamaha fall to 6x35~45W all driven.

    Denon Receivers are great machine besides that (my favourites).

    But if Musicallity is a prioritiy, two of the most musical are also also greta amps with all channel driver; Marantz and NAD.
     
  4. Radiohead

    Radiohead
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    4,295
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Amazingstoke
    Ratings:
    +433
    In your opinion.
     
  5. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Wow, is it really that bad?? I didn't know that, but that's why I posted my question here !

    Mmmm, the way I see it, I now have three options:
    1) wait and save money, so I can buy a better amp from Denon
    2) buy a 2nd hand amp from Denon
    3) change brand: Marantz / NAD ??? (first I gotta look at the prices though !! )
     
  6. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    That's personal !!
     
  7. Falp

    Falp
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,685
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Ratings:
    +25
    Doesn't need to be bad.
    I'ts a fact, a compromise.

    I love Denon machines, I have a Denon HiFi 12 years old and love it.
    In Receivers depends on what you need, priorities, like, or can afford. :)
     
  8. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Let me rephrase: by bad I ment the fact that they produce far less power than Denon claims (like posted above). I dindn't ment that it is bad equipment, in fact, why do you think I came up with Denon in the first place !! ;)
     
  9. 337GUS

    337GUS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    630
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    NE Scotland
    Ratings:
    +18
    Would you consider an older used model? A Denon 2802 (or Pioneer 2011 -one went for £350 on ebay last week) would go well with your B & W's. I had the 603 S2's and used them with various amps such as 2011, Sony 930 and Yamaha 3090 with nice results. Pioneer have a new 814 amp out around £250 which might be worth a listen.

    Gus
     
  10. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks for al the replies ! My plan: first listen to different amps. I realise that I might have been to much focussed on Denon only.

    P.S. I have a friend who ownes a pair of B&W 601's s3 and is also looking for a new receiver. He said he'd buy the same one as I would do if it was statisfying for me. I think he is going to be very surprised when I tell him this !! Though is 601's aren't that demanding for power as my 602's (max power handeling 100 watt vs 120 watt for my 602's, the 601 has a smaller driver). But I think that the Denon AVR-1705 is even to small for the 601's, am I right?
     
  11. Roam

    Roam
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    cityonfire,

    Yamaha's are no better than Denon in this respect going on their past performance. The new range of receivers are better but then they say that every time a new range comes out (blurb always reads - improved power section (probably found a cheaper way to make em!)) and guess what same **** poor results when mags get round to bench testing.

    Sure accurate power figures don't always mean the best sound but we like to think we are getting an honest product. What does this say about these brands?

    s2000,

    By my reckoning there are some brands that go better with B&W's than Denon and Yamaha. Consider also something from HK, NAD, Pioneer and Marantz. IMO I think the forward nature of B&W's balance well with the more laid back nature of the brands I've listed and they certainly don't have the same power issues as Yamaha and Denon.

    Enjoy!
     
  12. bbanduser

    bbanduser
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,786
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Watford
    Ratings:
    +3
    I have a Denon 3802 for sale in the classifieds forum. Would you consider that? It's a very good as far as receivers go and got rave reviews from just about everyone.
    You have to remember that eveything is a compromise. A completey separate good quality Processor/Amp wil give you better sound. Even amongst processors and amps, there almost no limit to what you can spend.
     
  13. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Of course the number of watts doesn't say everything ! But there's a big difference between 30 and 120 watt when you're trying to get a loud volume without problems like clipping.
    And off course, if you split everything and buy a seperate amp/processor etc. etc. you get a better sound, no doubt about that. But then you're looking at a completely different price tag. Hey, if that was the case: do you really think I'd still have my 602's ?? I'd run straight down to my dealer and get a pair of B&W model nautilus if price wasn't an issue. :D

    About the 3802: I'm sorry but I live in the Netherlands ! A little problem with the distance between you and me. The 3802 is nevertheless an option, but first I'd like to listen to other amps of other brands before I make my decision. But thanks for the offer.

    P.S. sorry if my english isn't the best arround, but I do my best !!
     
  14. Nik1967

    Nik1967
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    52
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    s2000,
    I am in a similar situation. see my post of today 'midlevel crisis'. I would be interested to know your choice of receiver. The power issue with all channels driven is a concern. Did you check out the Marantz SR 5400? It has some great reviews in US forums.
     
  15. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nik1967,

    I've listened to the Marantz 5400, but I came to the conclusion that it hasn't got the sound I want, this is very personal obviosly. The sound of the Marantz is to warm for me. I've also listened to the Pioneer 814, but that one doesnt do the trick either. The Pioneer is good for movies, but for music it isn't suitible for me.

    I'm waiting now for the possiblity to listen to the new Denon's. The 1705 is to weak concering the power issue, but I'm going to check out the new 2105 and see if that one is up to the job. The 2105 got a good review on a german dvd website btw. If the 2105 isn't capable of producing enough power, I'm going to wait a few months and save money. Then I'm going to buy the 2805. There is a BIG price difference between the 2105 and the 2805 (over 400 euro's), but I don't want to buy something I regret later. So if the 2105 doesn't statisfy me when I try it, I'm going for the 2805.

    It is completly up to you what you do, and the sound is personal, remember that. But I think when you have such a great speakers (who werent cheap either), you should get a desend amp. Otherwise you have bought to expensive speakers concering your budget!!!
     
  16. Falp

    Falp
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,685
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Ratings:
    +25
    If you like Denon and Denon sound go for the 2105.

    If will be the great success of the range!
     
  17. CosmicOne

    CosmicOne
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    YES ,it seems that all of us have great concern about the power am also torn apart between the old Pioneer 1011 (390UK pounds in my country) with it's great Amplifiers & real power but have very bad stereo reputation,& the new Yamaha RXV-650(410UK pounds) with it's great sound & new features & very good stereo (i listend to it in Pure direct mode on some B&W speakers but can't remember model) but have a very bad amplifier in 5channel modes????!!!!!!!

    & we don't have anyother models here in my country only pio & yam.
     
  18. Nik1967

    Nik1967
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    52
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    yeah, would be a shame if good quality speakers are not fully used to potential. I will give the Yammy 650 & Marantz 5400 a demo though.

    but have a very bad amplifier in 5channel modes
     
  19. Falp

    Falp
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,685
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Ratings:
    +25
    If you think a Yamaha RXV-650 has good stereo music hope untill you hear a Marantz Sr5400 ou NAD... or even Denon...
     
  20. tom_nieto

    tom_nieto
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2003
    Messages:
    418
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Brighton
    Ratings:
    +1
    The denon 3802 is a fine machine. All of the 380x series have been very well received by pretty much everyone. Most AV receivers have trouble driving all the channels. They tend not to be so good in stereo either. The difference that I noticed when I upgraded my front amplification to a stereo integrated amp was phenominal.
     
  21. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    An AV receiver is always a compromise between the two worlds, stereo and multichannel. The reason why it survives is in my opinion the fact that they give much (number of functions, processing and amplification in one, also video functions like switching etc. etc.) for relatively not much money! Seperate components are obviosly a better choice, but then you pay for it.

    For me the Denon 2105 is a serious option. I'd rather have a new, up-to-date receiver then a 2nd hand one. I'd like to know its history, and that's almost impossible with 2nd hand equipment. Or you have to know the seller personally and trust him/her completely, and that's not always possible!

    My plans for the future?? :
    - finish my home theater with the 600 series of B&W and a receiver (Denon 2105) and place it in a seperate room especially for the theater.
    - get a new equipment only for stereo in the living room. Here I want absolute sound quality, that's less important in the theater.

    Of course the 2nd plan (stereo setup) is not going to happen soon, that's going to take years... But hey, I have a goal !
     
  22. CosmicOne

    CosmicOne
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The real question is ,do we really need so much watts to get loud & good sound in movies???? coz i see that many brands like Yamaha ,Denon,Onkyo gave something like a maximum of 50w per channel in surround mode,while only Marantz & pioneer gave 80w per channel or more in surround,but still the Yamaha (as i read from lots of people here) is considerd the best or better than the Marantz & pioneer in Movie sounds (let the stereo now aside),
    i think the fact that the amp doesn't need to give bass to speakers in surround mode (hence the presence of the Subwoofer) the 40 or 50 watt is good for mids & trebles.

    or i could be totally wrong.
     
  23. s2000

    s2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The thing I'm worried about is, is problems with the receiver while playing at almost maximum power like clipping. That could destroy your speakers. The question is how stable the output of a receiver is at almost max volume. When the receiver has a much higher output (number of REAL watt's), you don't have to turn the volume up to the max to get a loud output from your speakers. In that way you stay out of the "danger" zone longer.
     

Share This Page

Loading...