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B&W centre speakers.

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by dAvE6, Sep 10, 2001.

  1. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    i have a small room, with a 1070 sony amp. 2 601 front speakers and 2, 3 series rear speakers. ive had it all for a week. and the sound from the CC6 centre speaker realy dosnt sound great still. its been used maybe 15 hours.

    ive heard some people say it needs a LOT of time to run in. but sso far it seems the same to me. the problems im having with it are:

    dialougue seems slightly muted and muffled most of the time. when talking, a lot of the higher pitched parts of the conversation become 'vibraty' and slightly tinny even at low volumes. the speaker just seems to lack any sort of presense. i have a small room so theres no point in upgrading, and im new to home cinema. im just hoping it really does improve.

    so please if there are any owners out there who can tell me exactly HOW it improves? i want it to have more presense and bite to it as well as the normal loosening of treble and bass. does the shrillness of high speach also go?

    BTW, what is bi wiring and does that help?

    thanks very much.
     
  2. Simon Cooper

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    How far off the floor have you placed it?
     
  3. dAvE6

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    err..its on top of my 28" panasonic television. but i dont quite see the relevence.

    its the lack of richness of the sound thats bothering me, and i want to hear from any CC6 owners out there how significant the changes are after the speaker is run in, and if the shrillness is ever over come.
     
  4. Luc

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    Mine's been fine since the day i got it. It sounded, well, different somehow when i moved all my stuff into a different room, but after fiddling with the settings on my SONY 980 for a week, it now sounds very vibrant. I watch more Sky through it than DVDS, so maybe i'm not the best person to assess it.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. johna

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    Dave - I have owned the CC6 for a little under a year and I found the sound to be excellent - I did notice a difference by bi-wiring, and also not directing the bass to the speaker helped.

    Sorry I couldn't be of any more help.

    John
     
  6. dAvE6

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    john, did the sound improve significantly after 50 hours or so? all i want to know is if the overall punch and richness improves.
     
  7. johna

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    Dave - I found the sound of my overall system improved signaficantly the more confident I got with adjusting the Amp's EQ.

    More signaficantly I did find the CC6 to improve, but at the same time I bought a dedicated stand which could have also helped.
     
  8. dAvE6

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    thanks. ya know..im actually consdiering upgrading to the LCR6. :/

    but i fear it wont balance with my 601's and 303's. im just so unhappy with the fullness of the sound. no one else seems to have reported high end distortion and shrillness.

    thing is, i have such a small room, with relativly average speakers. but then again the LCR wouldnt need to be loud, but just sounding more tonal and rich.
     
  9. johna

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    Can't really comment on the upgrade although I am certain that tone wise they will match with the rest of the system fine.

    Have you checked your speaker cable to make sure that it is connected securely?

    A long shot but.....
     
  10. dAvE6

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    yep im afraid it isnt the connections. the CC6 has bassicly the same output as one 601 speaker. as i mainly use my tv for games and dvd its really dissapointing as 70% of the sound comes from the centre. im new to home cinema, and ive now spent over a thousand just on sound. and actual quality wise, its bassicly what it was before i got any of it but with just surround sound.

    its been a nightmare over the last few months trying to get a tv and audio equipment. NOTHING seems to justify the price i pay. so i then have to pay more and more. ive messed around my dealer so much. i exchanged a 100hz tv for a 28pk3 as i didnt like 100hz smearing. i had to pay an extortionate exchange fee and ended upo paying £850 for a bloody 28pk3! then i got a theatre kit, and the dealer swore it would be more than enough for my room...it was appaling.

    so then i return that and try the best theatre kit they had. it was still eclipsed by nicam tv sound. then i returned that and now have the speakers. they said they cant exhange again. even just ONE measly speaker! im fine with the rest of the system finally, and thats the most crucial bit. ive spent a lot of money on them and they cant even do this one last thing for me. bassicly everything else in the system is a waste if your not happy with the main central sound.

    it kind of makes me wish i never got into it in the first place. i would have been far happier just with my old 21" and a hi fi linked. ill ask them again and if they say no theres no way, then perhaps ill mention to them that im thinking of chucking it all in and giving up, thus wasting £2000 + of my money.

    sorry to go on about it. i expect there are other people out there who are dissapointed with the quality and enjoyment they have had relative to the cost. argh what a nightmare! i could have started up snowboarding for that cost.
     
  11. johna

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    I've spent over 4 grand on my kit and I'm perfectly happy with it,

    What amp have you got?

    I must admit I'm a little surprised that your so dispondant with your kit
     
  12. dood

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    assuming your speaker is connected in phase, have you considered the possibility that the centre channel output of your amp is faulty. Try moving your centre speaker to the left or right front and/or a main speaker to the centre and see what happens.
     
  13. dAvE6

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    ah its no good, they wouldnt let me exchange it. im stuck with it. my amp is the sony DB1070. its decent enough.

    i feel really empty now. stuck with a sound rivalling my nicam tv after spending £2100.

    for £150 more i could have been completly satisfied. this is the kind of hobby where the more you spend and get involved, the more cynical and dissatisfied you become. i was fine with my old 21" and hi fi linked but thought it would be nice to have surround sound with the new games consoles like ps2. so then i thought..hmmm i had better get a widescreen, otherwise it will look out of place. and so on.

    i was happier then i think. maybe i remember the sound better than it was.

    <a href="http://www.audioreview.com" target="_blank">www.audioreview.com</a>

    that site contains masses of consumer oppinions. all the people who have tried the LCR6 have hated the CC6 for its lack of depth and clarity. but then my aim was never to have a top of the range living room set up. rather, it was supposed to be a bottom of the range tv with cool sound. i was naiive though and didnt realise sound would still be coming mainly from the centre.

    so john what other equipment have you got alongside this speaker? it seems your happy with it dispite having other speakers that out weigh it slightly. i should try and learn to like it i guess.

    hey! i have an idea. maybe i should hook up my old tv and hi fi together and get really used to it, then when i swap back it should give me the output that i originally expected. its just the more you buy the more you want and compare it to. when i hear the sound from the 601's they sound like proper speakers rather than surround speakers so then of course i start comparing them to more expensive proper speakers. i guess its a personality fault. im like that with my appearance too.

    <br />i had the speaker checked out and it isnt faulty (damn!). hopefully when its fully broken in after 100 hours, and the front 601's are also, ill be happier. and theres always the chance to upgrade later on after university. then maybe i can keep the amp and...actually thats probably all i'll keep.

    im worrying about how ps2 will sound but thats becasue im playing an n64 with worse audio, so maybe when proper DTS coding comes into its games then i wont they will sound much more dramatic. but what i have said is true that the dialougue is lacking if you go to audioreview.com, people said they put up with it for ages and ajusted the level of it to make it merely 'adequate'.

    can any of you suggest a way in which i could become more thankful and enthusiastic about my kit?

    thanks a lot.
     
  14. johna

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    I think that your being a bit harsh on the CC6 - the audio review web site is also filled with very good reviews for that speaker - it was a ratio of about 20% who weren't satisfied - and yes the LCR center will sound better but at another £150.

    I use the 601's rears, 603's fronts and in the process of buying a sub. I've got a sony 32fx60 which is a hundred hertz and again I've never had any problems and recently I bought a lcd projector which was the final piece really (for now!!)

    I guess I've just been lucky.
     
  15. dAvE6

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    its a decent speaker i guess. when playing games i make the central channel less prominent to allow the lower frequancies of the fronts to give it a bit more weight, but that starts tp drown out the central main music and effects. ive worked out that its the mid range thats the problem. treble and bass are exelent and matched to the 601's but mid range is almost identical to my nicam tv sound. it makes it seem a bit separated and light weight and hard to listen to.

    ok so i have all this stuff, but i cant see myself ENJOYING it much of the time. all my time will be spent trying not to wince at its inbalance of mid range.

    im suprised your 603's match ok with the CC6. how does the mid range sound to YOU? <br />im also shocked you have all that with no sub!!

    do you find yourself enjoying using it thouroughly or do you feel somewhat empty and dissatisfied knowing you will upgrade and lose even more money at a later date? its a routeless hobby. but now ive spent so much money ive got the itch for more.
     
  16. paiger

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    I purchased a Ruark Dialogue 1R Centre earlier this year along with Prelude R fronts. I had read great reviews and they sounded good in a quick demo at the shop. When I got my new speakers home and set them up I was confused. The clarity from the fronts was great with excellent control but all high frequencies were very hard edged and nasty. The centre sounded boxy and slghtly muffled with no projection. I felt gutted but did read that these things have to be run in. Well, all I can say is what a difference. After a good couple weeks of playing music and cinema for several hours a day the speakers came alive and I am now totally delighted with them. I think the trouble is that most centre speakers never get a good workout which they need to run in. I played MTV all day in prologic for a couple days at good volume and the difference was enourmous.

    Obviously this is a different speaker but it may give you some hope. I can't believe B&W would produce something substandard. Keep the faith and give a bit of welly. See how it goes.

    Steve
     
  17. fatrich

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    i have an acoustic energy package at the moment of which has served me very well but i am looking to upgrade very soon, but my point in making is that i suffered a similar problem when i first brought them home the centre seemed distant and muffled i took the frony grill off and it improved a little but over time the sound became less harsh and seemed to intergrate more with the front two i think it is a case of being patient and letting the speaker run in.Also i don't know a lot about your amp but does it have test tone output if it does then try listening to the speaker output levels it can make a difference if they are incorrectly set if you can borrow or buy a basic test meter this also may help.

    regards

    richard
     
  18. Noel

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    David,

    I had a CC6 with 603's and 601's and the CC6 was fine. It's not the greatest centre in the world, but it's not the worst either. I though it was pretty good, although it did need a LOT of running in. Let in run in at a good volume for a couple of days and then set aside a couple of hours to play with the settings on your amp. If you think that Nicam sound was better, you are definitely NOT hearing the CC6 at its best.

    You may need to change the EQ settings on your amp more than you expect, but room acoustics play a big part in how these things sound.

    You have not bought a dud piece of kit and there will be a way to resolve this situation with a little patience. When it all comes together you'll wonder what all the fuss was about! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

    Give it a week and post back with your findings.

    Good luck <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
     
  19. dAvE6

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    thanks guys your all being very helpful. im aware of its huge running in time. its the longest running in time of the whole range apparantly at around 100 hours. mines probably been used for about 35 hours. i always ask people how it improves when run in but no one ever tells me. its like theyre fobbing me off or something. the people i bought it from and B&W anyway.

    im sure the speaker will sound looser and less forced with better treble and perhaps smoother bass. but i already like the treble and bass. its the mid range richness that i fear will never change. i mean...how can a speaker possibly sound like a larger, richer speaker in the mid range? and im not talking about 'louder'. i can just turn up the centre if i want that. ok well i'll post back after more use.
     
  20. Noel

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    David,

    Mine improved in all round sound after approx 50 hours running in. The bass got better, the dialogue clearer and the treble more rounded. If you want an exact fugure, I'd say it improved about 10%, but certainly noticeable.

    One thing to bear in mind is that the CC6 has about the same cabinet volume as a small bookshelf speaker, so it's never going to sound like a bigger speaker.

    I also had an STRDB830 and you could increase the midrange level on the centre speaker thorough the EQ setting. Perhaps it's worth trying this to get a sound that suits your ears?

    Again, good luck.
     
  21. dAvE6

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    i actually set it to large to try and get a more basey sound from it. its perfectly clear too. so whats the advantage of setting it to small?

    the cable might actually make a bit of difference. im thinking that maybe the scratchiness of the sound at high frequancies is due to the cable. the 2 601's get a bit like that too. they both use the same cabling. i use QED silver anniversery cable. its £5 a metre. you think it needs better? if so can you reccomend a different one which is less harsh? <br />and noel, increasing the mid range of the speaker only increases the volume of the mid range. it dosnt change the tone of it unfortunatly.

    i have to say, one thing that sounded SUPERB on my speakers was conkers bad fur day on the n64. it has been so well coded in its sound that it perfectly suits them. probably due to basey instruments being used with more sound channels. its hard to explain.
     
  22. Lowrider

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    I think a reasonable subwoofer will solve your problem, actually you cannot get full body sound without one with those speakers, no matter the size of the room or the power of the amplifier...
     
  23. dUnKle

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  24. dAvE6

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    oh good im glad i have a decent cable then. no it isnt faulty as they came and checked it out. actually im starting to like it more now. ive turned DOWN the mid range of it becasue i dont like the tone of the mid relative to the bass and treble. they are at +7 and +8 respectivly. its loosening up and its remarkably crisp and clear no. treble is no problem. bass in music is also great. i have a sub woofer. part of the reason i was critisising it was becasue i tried taking the subwoofer channel out and then evaluated the sound. when the channel isnt there bassicly the sound is mainly mid, right? so i could compare the mid of my tv to the speaker. treble was better that the tv's sound but with no bass there, the mid sounded comparable to my tv's sound. but then, maybe mid isnt SUPPOSED to have heavy mid. and some mid range music does actually attach bass to the chord and make it fuller. but i think im starting to become more satisfied with it. my 601's sound very muffled and basey compared to my centre, so when they run in fully the soundstage should sound even more even and dynamic. its really hard to tell myself how decent it is, as i dont know how mid range notes are supposed to sound. im probably being a bit paranoid and picky too. ill let you know how im getting on later today. so your upgrading? i would go for the HTM2 if i was you. its expensive but ive heard it and its stunning.
     
  25. dUnKle

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    The demos I have had were rather good of the cdmnt speaker but not good enough to warrant that sort of cash

    What Amp do you have ? From what it seems all the extra features seem to be causing more problems than they solve
     
  26. dAvE6

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    sony STR 1070 amp. 100w per channel.
     
  27. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    I was lucky ( in a way ) that when I purchased my 603s and my CC6 a little over 18 months ago, the CC6 was ex demo ( not a scratch on it and no problems and also had exra 6 months warranty and was £25 cheaper ) so it had done its fair share of warming up.

    My CC6 sits nicely ontop of my 32" Sony W/screen set it is solid as a rock and with the little rubber feet things does not move an inch.

    What I did find is that it is not suited to a LARGE speaker role, just try wiring it up on the left or right channel and playing some music. Also it does sound ( only slightly ) better when bi-wired.

    It DOES need a good quality cable. Out of all my spekaers the biggest change when upgarding speaker cable was to the center. It was a real NOTICABLE difference and worth the money.
     
  28. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    A friend of mine has one of these and its a very impressive amp. From the little play I had with it, it seems to have all sorts of gimmicks that allow you to alter the frequancies of all speakers ( kinda like a graphic equalizer ) and also have things that make the speaker sound closer and also as if it is behind a screen.

    Do you use any of these ? If so try not using them ! in my experience things like this often cause more harm than good. I do not want to start a " my amp is better than yours " thread as it probably is not, but if you look at the big expensive flag ship amps these types of gimmicks are kept to a minimum
     
  29. dAvE6

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    wel lyes i have played with the settings. i adjust the bass, treble and mid for each set of speakers. however, that is just the amount of decibels for each setting. theres also a FREQUANCY setting adjustment for each set of speakers including the centre one. but im not sure how that works and what setting i should havve. i know a lower bass frequancy creates a less audible but more feely bass. but with treble and mid i dont know. any ideas?
     
  30. dAvE6

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    right..im going to bite the bullet and upgrade. theres no point in struggling to enjoy the sound. ive now read extensive reader reviews of all the 600 series speakers on audioreview.com and the general consensus is that cc6 is extremly shallow and does not match anything above the 601's. i worked out why i dislike it so much. its the frequancy range and frequancy response. both are MORE NARROW than the 303 speakers!!!!!! thats pathetic. but the LCR6 actually has a better response than the 602 speakers. that will provide a far richer mid range. to match i will upgrade my front 601's to 602's and move the 601's to the back. that now means i need to sell my CC6 and 303 speakers. what a sodding waste of money, ive only had them a week! i wish i researched first and auditioned speakers. i knew nothing of frequancy ranges or anything.

    im comfident the LCR6 is superior to the CM one you are considering duncun. but both are the same price. luckily ive found another retailer in Bath where i live. so i wont have to face the people i dispise in the other shop. dang...£650 more. any ideas where i can sell or trade in speakers? i'll just have to accept that mistakes happen and move on. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

    its worth it. you know why? becasue, whats the point in spending ANY money if you arent completly satisfied. u may as well go the extra mile and be effortlessly content. if i ket the cc6, 303's then i would upgrade anyway! then AGAIN later.

    <br /><a href="http://www.audioreview.com" target="_blank">www.audioreview.com</a> check out the LCR6 reviews. they really highlight the cc6 limitations in relation. its that wider mid/bass range thats sooo much better.

    theres a 600 s3 range coming out. damn, hings are even more complicated. is it worth waiting?! and whens it out?

    please try and reply to this. sorry its so long.

    thanks.
     

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