1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

B&W 804- buy ex-dem or new series?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by rkb, Jan 22, 2005.

  1. rkb

    rkb
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Irvine Scotland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Hi
    I'm looking at upgrading my B&W P5's (which I might use as rears in a large room) to B&W Nautilus 804s, which are available ex-dem. Dealers asking about £1750-2000- would I be better going for the brand new 804's?

    I have an LCR60 centre- was also looking at an upgrade to a HTM2.
    Everything driven by Arcam FMJ 22Dave & FMJ 25/3.

    So , do I go ex-dem for the upgrade, maybe wait and buy new, or do any of you guys have 804s and a HTM2 in cherry you may want to part with?
    Cheers

    rkb
     
  2. Daneel

    Daneel
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +26
    If you are going to pair it with the HTM2 I'd save money and go with the old range. With the new 804 there are improvements but they look fairly subtle to me and you don't get the new diamond tweeter.

    Rags can probably weigh in here, he had 804s with a HTM1 and also owned the HTM2.
     
  3. Smurfin

    Smurfin
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    20,503
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,824
    I might be wrong but I think the new Nautilus series all have a new tweeter, which is an improvement on the old "signature" tweeter that many people rate very highly. So the difference (may) be more pronounced than you think. I might also be talking total cobblers, which I'm sure someone will point out if it's the case:)
     
  4. recruit

    recruit
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    You're right Matt they all have a new alloy tweeters and the 805S have the same Balanced drive unit for the Midrange as the Signature model before it.
     
  5. Daneel

    Daneel
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +26
    New 804S

    The S rather than D means no diamond tweeter. They have tweaked it since the old N models though.
     
  6. Daneel

    Daneel
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +26
    Ok, so we are both right :)

    Still, if you are going to pair it with a HTM2, I'd go with the old range. I think there are 4(?) centres coming out for the 800 series, I think the HTM4S is the replacement for the HTM2. It all depends on the size of your wallet
     
  7. recruit

    recruit
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes Daneel i have the new HTM4S on order aswell as the 805S's and they are an exact match for each other if you start moveing up the range say to the 804S and 803S or even 803D then you need to look at either the HTM3S or the HTM2D.
     
  8. whats_this

    whats_this
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    484
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    recruit pls let us know how those speakers sound, would be interesting to hear your thought on your move from m&k's to the new 800 series. Just out of interest what will you be driving the speakers with?
     
  9. recruit

    recruit
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Will do.

    It depends how quickly i get them if they turn up soon then probably my Z9 for the time being but i should have the G68 processor and G55 amp to run them soon.
     
  10. whats_this

    whats_this
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    484
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    WOW. . . . that will be one heck of a system when its all finished. Sure you will enjoy it.
     
  11. SKA.face

    SKA.face
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Whatever ever you choose,they'll be a massive improvement over the P5,I have 804 and P6 at home,the 800 series are a different class.The new 804 and range are getting exspensive,so may be better the older range,depending on the depth of ones wallet.
     
  12. rkb

    rkb
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Irvine Scotland
    Ratings:
    +27
    HI- thanks for everyones feedback. :thumbsup: Good to see so many B&W fans here.

    Dealers i've spoken to who have just taken delivery of the new 800s descibe them as "amazing"- especially the diamond tweeters.
    Although I'm serious about home cinema and could buy the 3 fronts from the new 800 series, I could buy a hell of a lot of DVDs with the money saved by going for the older 800s ex-dem. :)

    Any thoughts on using the P5s as rears or maybe going for ex-dem 805 rears.
    My room is 15ft wide by 25ft long- I had also thought of 4 x 805's with a HTM2. My sub is a Tannoy RSub15.

    Further advice and feedback will be much appreciated as I hope to sit down and demo some speakers this week,
    Cheers

    rkb
     
  13. Tejstar

    Tejstar
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,495
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +995
    robfitzp tried selling a pair of Nautilus 804's (red cherry) in these forums recently. He has since put them up for sale at eBay. Click here
     
  14. SKA.face

    SKA.face
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I would stick to 804 as the fronts,have more scale than the 805,but use the 805 as the rears,not the P5,which are tonally thinner than the 800,and very bright.
     
  15. rkb

    rkb
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Irvine Scotland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Thanks, guys
     
  16. Pat Marcus

    Pat Marcus
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Messages:
    607
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Ibstock
    Ratings:
    +8
    RKD - I currently have 804s and am thinking of upgrading them to the new series 803S or possibly 803D. I use them with an HTM2. Although the new series 804S now uses a version of what was the "signature" tweeter the overall character of the sound is not terribly different from the older model. The price your dealer is offering seems reasonable. If you plump for the older model you wont be disappointed. They will grow with every source, amplification and cable upgrade you make and I love mine to bits. If you're passing Birmingham, you are welcome to drop in for a listen.
     
  17. rkb

    rkb
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Irvine Scotland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Pat- thanks for the input and offer of a demo. If you do go for 803's, would you be selling your 804's? What colour?
    I demo'd 804 & 805 today v P5s. Liked 805's but preferred P5's overall. 804's clarity was very good but appeared to be a bit boomy on the bass. Not sure if they really were, or just a different sound to the P5's. Might have to arrange a home demo next.
    cheers
    rkb
     
  18. robfitzp

    robfitzp
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,162
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +20
    Re the 804, I think they need a decent amount of space around them to work well. I only had about 18" to the rear and the side - prob not enough. Bought WB Arcs instead and they work better in the space. 804 is nice if you have the room though.

    Re dealers raving about the new one - what a surprise!!!

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  19. Tejstar

    Tejstar
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,495
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +995
    Did you buy the Arcs brand new or ex-dem, how much were they if you don't mind me asking?

    Do you not find that you're lacking a little bass over the 804's?
     
  20. rkb

    rkb
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Irvine Scotland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Thanks Rob- I hadn't really considered "breathing space" around the speaker. I can fit in the 804's but would only have about 12" to sides and rear to spare. Maybe I need a re-think, although a home demo may resolve it once and for all. My dealer wanted £2k but reduced to £1800 after I pointed out scratches and nicks on both sides of both speakers. Seem to have been on demo since about 2001. Anyone have any thoughts on realistic value? I think it has to fall a bit to reflect the age and condition.
    Just noticed yours have all sold Rob- well done.

    Cheers
    rkb
     
  21. robfitzp

    robfitzp
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,162
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +20
    Tejstar

    Bought the Arcs and a WB centre used for £2500. Chap bought them new in Oct/Nov 03 and they were mint.

    Surprisingly they are not bass light compared to the 804 - I am not a bass fiend though (I don't own a sub.....). In due course they will make fantastic surround speakers with a pair of curves at the front.....

    RKB

    Don't get me wrong, it was not as if they boomed or anything like that, but when I bought them I demoed in quite a large room with them hanging off the end of a Krell300 and they never quite sounded like that at home!!! Room is 18*11 and powered by Chord 1200c.

    Truth be told, mine did not sell. The winning bidder was a mate of mine who I asked to set my reserve price. I forgot about ending the auction - we have a 5 week old daughter who can kind of distract you when she is screaming the house down. God knows what the ebay fees will be on my non-sale!!!

    I am going to put them back on the classifieds here. Red cherry, mint (and I mean mint) bought ex demo in Dec 03. I will take 1450 for them if you are interested...

    Before this breaches any rules I am going to post in the classifieds :thumbsup:

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  22. mattross

    mattross
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    £1,800 seems high to me. I bought my 804s ex-demo from Audio Salon in Glasgow [mail order, I live just North of London] and they were £1,600 about 6 months ago. First class condition as well. Sometimes they go for more than that on eBay though.
     
  23. Tejstar

    Tejstar
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,495
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +995
    Rob - Sorry to hear there was no interest. If I could afford the 804’s I would have definitely made an offer :)

    Shame about forgetting to end the auction, those Ebay fees can certainly add up!
     
  24. rkb

    rkb
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Irvine Scotland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Cheers mattross
    £1600 is a bit more reasonable, I think. I searched for B&W dealers, but didn't find Audio Salon- where are they in Glasgow?
    cheers
    rkb
     
  25. mattross

    mattross
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    257
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    From their webpage [www.audiosalon.co.uk]:

    audio salon
    the townhouse
    4 park circus
    glasgow
    g3 6ax
    scotland
     
  26. rags

    rags
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,086
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +301
    The new series has been changed quite significantly from the older series with major changes being -

    - whilst cabinet shapes are largely unchanged, cabinet bracing has taken a major upgrade contributing partly to a substantial increase in weight. As an example the old 803's weighed 30Kg each but the new 803S (non diamond) model weighs 41Kg each.
    - the S models now feature a modified version of the old signature tweeter. The D models have the diamond tweeter but its supposed to be quite fragile and expensive - a big DTS pop could cost several hundred pounds to repair. The diamond speakers offer a much smoother top end (quite unlike previous B&W offerings) with zero sibilance and female vocals are rendered quite beautifully.
    - New material used un the drive unit cones and larger improved magnets. Its rock hard to the touch and very stiff.
    - A couple of the new subs feature room eq but they are not out yet. All have changed driver material but I couldnt find any difference between the old and the new version in terms of sound. They use the same 2X500w amps as the old models and have the same shape and size.

    There are a host of other improvements which may all just be brochure talk like changed and simplified crossovers, improved tweeter assembly etc etc.
     
  27. Daneel

    Daneel
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    2,822
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +26
    I soooooooooooooo need to hear these. What's a DTS pop?

    I've very surprised to hear that the driver can be damaged like that, is that something a dealer said or what?
     
  28. rags

    rags
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2003
    Messages:
    4,086
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +301
    Daneel - some processors give out a pop when you switch to DTS from DD - my old TAG used to do it occasionally. If loud enough you can damage your tweeters (I know of one chap who blew the tweeter in his centre channel as a result). Of course there are numerous other ways to damage tweeters...

    I have been told that the diamond dome is extremely fragile and brittle and can shatter on touch - some Nautilus owners like to remove the tweeter grill - a big no no with these I suppose, especially if you have small kids.
     

Share This Page

Loading...