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AX5Ai with SAT\SUB Packages

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by NC11, Nov 7, 2004.

  1. NC11

    NC11
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    for those who use the AX5i (or the AX5Ai) with a sat\sub speaker package like the KEF 2005 , MS Genie , Gallo's , AE , etc. , what is you're setting for the speakers? is it "Small" or "large"? Have you noticed any difference is bass with either setting?

    The automated setup detects my 2005.2 KEF set as "Large" , but than the sub is hardly noticable. When I change it to "Small" the sub plays the bass and sounds well.

    Not sure what is the best setting though , any ideas?
     
  2. recruit

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    With a Sub Sat Package it is best to have your speakers set to small and all bass or LFE is then sent to the Sub, or you will put unwanted strain on the Sat's.

    John :)
     
  3. goodtimes

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    I have a AX5i with s3 603s for front left and right, a LCR600 for acentre, a LCR60 for a center back and 601s for left and right surrounds also a Warfdale 12 inch cube for a sub. My problem is however that there never seems to be enough bass for music as the sub will not fire at all if the speakers are set to large when listening to cds and when set to small the sub needs to be turned down for movies, am I missing out on midrange from the 603s when I set the speakers to small or the sub to PLUS, I have been led to believe that midrange bass should be handled by the 603s as the bass is more solid and smooth than with the sub, My room is perfect a rectangle with bare walls ,SUE, she who must be obeyed will not let me dampen down the room with curtains etc so the sound is quite bright , life is not perfect. AM I expecting too much, I know that the sub is not the best but I ran out of money. Cheers.
     
  4. recruit

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    Goodtimes the B&W have metal tweeters and can sound bright if your room is sparcely furnished by adding more furniture or soft furnishings it would help with this problem but if your other half will not allow it then :( also what speaker wire are you useing if it is silver this tends to make the sound more brighter aswell.

    John
     
  5. goodtimes

    goodtimes
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    Im using thick normal color copper wirethat cost a fortune , I dont mind the lively sound as I have screwed up hearing anyway<to many rifles going off upside my head> Its the bass problem that upsets me i had a set of cheap sony speakers to start with and heres the test, in Saving Private Ryan as the landing craft is opening up along with the heads of the unfortunate soilders there is a very cool grinding noise<just after the twinn machine gunsblat away>It kind of sounds like the landing craft is grounded on the sand or somthing,I feel like Im missing out on other sounds.
    I can just barley hear it with the 603s whereas the sony cheapo speakers really bring it out.
    Also I upgraded from a pioneer 812 amp that when the cross over was set to 100 I could still get the sub to fire when listening to music cds.The only chioce with the ax5i is to choose the plus setting for the sub which I believe sends all the bass to the sub or to choose small for all speakers with the same result.I then get sub with my music but it kind of sounds muddy or overwelmed even with the sub turned down.
    I muck around with the set up now and again, My wife calls me obsesive I call it a healthy dose of intrest. Id just love to know if there is some middle ground setting which will allow me to have the sub banging away without missing out on the finer bass sounds?
    cheers
     
  6. recruit

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    Goodtime i had the B&W 603's and must say i did not like them there bass was just too unruly and made me wish i had kept my 602.5's they were alot more controlled and the sound was generally alot nicer in the end i got rid of the B&W's and changed to Monitor Audio's S6's and av package and this solved all my problems with intergration.
    Maybe if you were to add a dedicated Stereo amp for the 603's it might help control them better and give you a better sound.

    John
     
  7. goodtimes

    goodtimes
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    man I have not had sex since I spent money on my setup I would hate to see what else might be cutoff If I spent more .
     
  8. recruit

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    Yeah not a good idea :laugh:

    John
     
  9. ScottG

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    I have an AX5i, run it with 7 x AG Dues and a Velodyne CHT15 sub, spkrs set to small, 80hz Crossover. No probs at all, seem to integrate very nicely with plenty of punch!
     
  10. goodtimes

    goodtimes
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    As i understand it when you set the speakers to small the cross over settings are over ridden and all bass is sent to the sud is that correct?
     
  11. recruit

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    Yes and if you notice on an av amp the Sub will automatically be set to ON when all speakers are set to small.

    John
     
  12. goodtimes

    goodtimes
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    Thanks man, hey I just got up down here you must be up all night?
     
  13. recruit

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    Were in the UK well some of us are and it is 7:40pm GMT ;)

    John
     
  14. Sniper

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    "all the bass" - what you mean is anything under that crossover setting!

    so re-cap: when you set the speakers to small & the amp's xover to 80 (or anything else) any bass (below the xover point) which was intened to be reproduced on any speaker (set to small) will be sent to the sub.

    also note: if your sub is connected via a sub-out (lfe out) on the amp (and not high-level connection) set the crossover dial on the sub to max.
     
  15. NC11

    NC11
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    thanks guys for the feedback. just to be sure i got it right - when the speakers are set as "small" the bass goes through the sub , and in order to get a better "punch" i should set the crossover point to 80?

    is that within the "expert" part of the setup?
     
  16. goodtimes

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    No I believe that the cross over setting is over ridden and all of the bass is sent to the sub.
    this morning I decided to do some testing so I turned the power off to the sub.
    I then mucked around with the speaker and cross over settings and found that if set 80 as the cut off and the speakers set to small not much bass at all was present as I listened to omaha beach landing.
    I played it over and over just to hear if I could tell the diff between small and choosing plus settings. both sounded the same to me.
    I also listened to my normal settings which are large for lr and c with crossover at 80 and there is a big diff as the 603s were getting bass so there remains one logical answer,
    1 if the speakers are set to small ALL of the bass is sent to the sub.
    2 Chooseing plus with large fronts seems only to boost loudness
    this means that the crossover setting no longer applies.
    3 The cross over settings only work if you have your front speakers set to large and they are in the expert settings under crossover network, however I would setup the max bass peak levels first to make sure you dont stuff anything up.
     
  17. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Not necessarily. That part of the answer related to Goodtimes who uses large B&W floorstanders whereas your question related to small satellites.

    You may find that 80Hz is too low for KEF Eggs or Gallo Micros as they may not reproduce the frequencies from 80Hz to 100Hz as well as the sub so if you can select from a range of crossovers on the sub I would try 90Hz, 100Hz and even a bit higher to see which sounds best.
     
  18. Sniper

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    ... heh.. you keep saying ALL of the bass - i think you might be mixing things up! bass can be defined as anything under 200hz or there abouts!

    SO:

    if you set any speaker to LARGE - all the frequencies from your recording (CD or DVD or anything else!) is sent to that speaker, nevermind what the XOVER on the amp is set too - and note that this would really mean that whislt listening to a 2 channel source (a normal cd) your sub won't do a thing (in direct stereo mode), and when view a DVD the sub will only reproduce what recorded in the .1 part of the audio!

    if you set your speakers to SMALL - all the frequencies from the XOVER point upwards will be sent to the speakers and anything from the XOVER point downwards will be sent to the SUB - and when viewing a DVD it will also send the .1 part of the sound!

    so - if your speakers are not up the the job of producing stuff from 80 (more like 60 i guess) downward & setting the speakers to SMALL does not get you anywhere, my guess is that the sub you chose is not doing a great deal eighter!
     
  19. goodtimes

    goodtimes
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    this begs the question in a purist sence <should the sub fire when using 2 channel stereo> ie should we try to make the sub fire or accept that 2 channel does not carry lfe. ?
     
  20. ancientgeek

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    I believe the AX5 will choose its own crossover frequency based on its microphone testing.

    Another reason for choosing "small" is that a single source for low frequencies is less likely to produce loud and quiet bass at different places in the room.

    I think that after calibaration, you can ask the AX5i not to cut the bass from the main speakers (ie it goes to main plus sub). You can listen to a CD or watch stereo TV with the sub switched off without losing the bass. When the sub is on, you can cut it back a little if needed, or change to the normal setup with no bass from main channels.
     
  21. goodtimes

    goodtimes
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    I think Im getting thr big picture at last.
    Where I was going wrong was that I thought the crossover was for the lfe or .1 information I did not realize that the .1 info was on a diff track so to speak and I confused any bass levels as such. So now I have tested every different setting and come up with the setting fronts and center to large xover to 80 and the sub to plus SO when I listen to stereo I can back the sub down a bit and turn it up for movies.
    Q now is does the peak bass level stop the sub blowing?
    cheers and thanks guys.
     
  22. jon smith

    jon smith
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    Thought i'd resurrect this thread rather than starting a new one...

    I have the 2014i receiver, so should be similar to the AX5 setup but not exactly the same.

    For speakers I have Kef Q4s as fronts and the Q6c centre, these are combined with 4x Gallo Micros as rears. Can I set the sub crossver at 80hz, or do I need to put it around the 100hz mark to protect the rears??

    What would be best, as i'd obviously like the fronts to do most of the work for music?
     

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