1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Awkward Speaker Placement

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by prevailrob, Apr 7, 2003.

  1. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi,

    I just purchased my first sound setup, a yamaha 630 amp and some pioneer floorstanders + surrounds (http://***********/8y2n)

    They arrive on wednesday and im wondering where im going to place the rears accordningly cos our room is rather awkward. I made a mock diagram of the room that you can view here http://www.prevail.nu/room.jpg

    The red boxes are where im thinking it should be ok to place the rears, but immediatly next to the left rear there is a small column that im not sure will affect the sound or not if the speaker is facing inwards. Should i face the speakers directly forward?

    Note the seating is directly below the speakers and there is barely 6 feet between the speakers. is this soundfield going to be too narrow or forward? the speakers are practically directly above listening area , if anything about a foot behind (distance between wall and sofa)

    There is about 10 feet from rear to floorstanders/telly/centre

    I know should really wait until the speakers arrive and just try but i am doing my head in greatly over this. :confused:

    Your time & advice is well apreciated.
    Thanks

    Rob
     
  2. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    OK.

    This is how I would handle the situation.

    1. I would purchase wall brackets for my rear speakers. I would move the one in the right corner of the room to be 'diagonally' opposite the left hand rear speaker; basically placed further down the right wall. Place the speakers 3-6 feet above your seated listening position (as high as possible as long as it isn’t over 6-8 feet) and use the speaker brackets to aim the speakers directly at each other. In this instance, you are making the distance between you and the speaker further away which will make the sound sound less on top of you and harder to pinpoint. However, your sweet spot will be the right-hand sitting area. However, the left hand one won’t sound too bad.

    2. Buy yourself a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) Meter and calibrate all your channels properly. You may even feel you need to lower the db's of the back speakers if it sounds to 'overwhelming' from the rears. Its not technically correct to do this but its better then only ever hearing the rears because they are too loud.

    3. Get yourself a little TV centre stand so that you can angle your centre speaker directly at your listening position - i.e. not firing to high and not firing to low. This, alongside point 2, will improve clarity of speech.

    4. Measure your speakers and set the distances correctly in your amp. As there rears are very much closer to you then the fronts, the delay will need to be placed in as accurately as possible.

    These are only small bits of advice that I can offer. I have a small room (10 X 11 X 8) which is nearly a cube (cubes are bad for sound) and my rears are only 1.7 meters either side of my head. By having them high up (mine are only a few inches from the ceiling) and facing each other my surround sound is extremely good.

    Hope this helps.

    Brad
     
  3. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cheers muchly for you advice mate.

    What I had ultimatly thought about doing was placing them about 2 feet above the seating area both on the back walls as far apart as possible and pointing slightly inwards towards themselves. Due to the column, the sofa sits about 6 inches away from the wall so at least the speakers are a bit behind. All I was worried about then was if the column would affect the sound coming out of the rear left as its right next to it. I imagine there is going to be an evening of girlfriend and daughter holding speakers up and cursing at me *grins* :)

    I wasnt too worried about the longer side of the sofa (along the other wall) as we only ever sit together along the back, so we would be right between the two rears, if not a little to one side.

    Another question I had was cable length. How long can I run the cables before it starts to sound bad? I think I read somewhere that we´re talking well over 40 feet. If anything I´d consider going round the long way of the room for tidyness.


    Rob
     
  4. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi,

    If your speaker stands push the speaker away from the wall a bit, and you angle the speaker to face each other, would the speaker front face clear the column? If so you would be fine, although please experiment.

    I know this sounds silly, but do you get What-Hi-Fi in Spain. It’s not the best of mags but it does show you a speaker placement for the 'L-Shaped room' that I agree with. Although, I still think the speakers should be 4-6 feet above the seated position. I feel that two feet would be too less. But again, experiment before you fix things to walls! Also, I feel that both back speakers on the back wall only may give you an over powering rear soundstage. Play around again hear before fixing.

    You want to keep your cables as short as possible, for everything. Interconnects and speaker cables alike. Measure out the speaker cable route with string and try and keep the front three cables the same length the back two cables the same length. Real audiophiles will tell you to have ALL speaker cables the same length but this is just not practical with home theatre! Try and save up and buy quality cable as well and not bell wire or something. There are always big debates on whether £5pm cable sounds better then £50pm cable. At the end of the day, spend what you can on and buy something that won’t restrict your systems performance in any way.

    Brad
     
  5. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi,

    About clearing the column, im not 100% sure until i get the speaker up there but if anything it´ll just clear it if not be slightly obscured by it. Again, i´m going to have to wait until wednesday and hold it up there and see :)

    Yeah, I do manage to get WHAT HI-FI (at a price, mind you :) ) and I had taken a look at the section on room shapes, couldnt quite tell if our room fell into that category tho.

    I feel the exact same way about the rear soundstage being to narrow or overpowering being barely 6 feet apart, thats why Im so concerned. I hadnt thought about placing the rear right along the right wall alongside the couch because technically it would be in front of where we are sat and rather close to the front speakers. I didnt see that working at all. Again, its the first time ive done this so what the hell do i know :D
    Did you take a look at http://prevail.nu/room.jpg ?

    I´d read it had to be *at least* 6 ft from ground making it about 2/3 feet above ear level.

    Thanks for you time mate.

    Rob
     
  6. steev

    steev
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2001
    Messages:
    233
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Beds, UK
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've got an awkward room in the house we're building. It wasn't designed with AV as a priority, so it will end up with the sofa (probably L shaped) and the TV diagonally across from each other. It's all open plan, so I'm expecting that my little speakers with my HTiB-45 may get a bit lost in all that space.

    I've run cable (79 strand from TLC) in the walls to two points about 8' out from the sofa corner and about 7' up. There's also a cable low down in the corner in case I ever get a centre rear. To be honest I didn't measure the lengths, but how difference would it really make on the surrounds?

    I've also run cable in the study for a surround system. That's a more conventional rectangle.

    I've layed everything out based on stuff I've read and a little guesswork, hoping that it will sound decent. I don't expect audio perfection, just an enjoyable experience.

    Mind you, next time we build a house...

    --
    Steve
    Pictures at www.bagofspoons.net
     
  7. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The problem in our case was due to the shape of the room and having dining table and balcony door etc there is only 2 places to have the sofa, and they both are exactly identical just at opposite corners.

    I get my speakers delivered on wednesday. Im most likely to ditch the cable that comes with them (im sure anyone here would agree) and go out and find something a little better.

    Since I have nothing yet, sorry for not being able to answer your query :)

    Cheers,
    Rob
     
  8. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    prevailrob - Still give the right-wall speaker placement ago. You may need to point the speakers into the corner a little - give it a ago and let me know as I would be interested for my records. Good luck with Wednesday!

    steev - as long as you havent got 30 meters on one side and 3 meters the other side, yourll be alright!!
     
  9. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    yes mate, will do.
    Im sat in my living room right now eyeing it up :)

    I will let you know how i get on.

    fank you very much for all the help :)

    Cheers,
    Rob
     
  10. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Not a problem. Anytime. :)
     
  11. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Brad,

    I just made these mock up:

    http://prevail.nu/wideroom.jpg

    Speaker positions A + B are where I was thinking of putting them originally. Am I right in saying Speaker C is where u are recommending putting the right rear instead of B?

    Before you mention, I _would_ place them higher. Just noticed this now :)

    The fronts would of course be either side of the telly.

    Cheers,
    Rob
     
  12. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes mate.

    I would at least audition the speaker there. Turn the speaker into the left (via the bracket) so that the direct line of sound would be almost parallel with the wall. Do the same with the other rear speaker as well. Then try adjusting both of them to see if you can simulate a non-direction-detectable sound field.

    I tell ya, I do come out with some description sometimes. 'non-direction-detectable' - what the hell is that when its at home????! :D
     
  13. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    i get ya.

    I place the speakers in positions A & C. Lets say 4 feet above ear level when sat down. Ill play with height.

    Then position C to face left down the wall.
    Position A directly right clearing the column or make it face C?

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  14. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I would place both rear speakers on the wall in such a way that the direct line of sound crosses behind you at your primary listening position.
     
  15. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Although, looking at the picture carefully, it may be OK to have them in the original position.......

    Experiment my good man .............
     
  16. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeah, that back wall behind the smaller end is about 6 feet.

    My only concern about putting the speakers as A & B was that the soundstage was going to be too narrow.

    Rob
     
  17. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Oh and can you see what I mean about that column?
    Im pretty sure however that on a wall mount the speaker would clear it
     
  18. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yay!

    Got my speakers today. Only just had time to wire them up to the amp and it was time to go back to work. grrrr!

    Anyway, I am having the remote for my Yammy 630 mailed to me cos they didnt have it at the shop (I got the player considerably cheaper because of this) so there isnt much I can do as far as setting up the speaker settings and delays etc without it is there?

    Nevertheless the setup sounds the dog´s testicles in spite of this :), thing is it is my first setup and ive never really listened to DD or DTS before (apart from the cinema) so I have nothing to compare it to :D

    Anyway, brad, thank you very much for all your help over the last few days.

    Cheers,
    Rob
     
  19. Brad_Porter

    Brad_Porter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Not really mate. Give us a shout when you get the remote - we shall play then!
     
  20. prevailrob

    prevailrob
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Brad,

    Still awaiting my remote to be able to calibrate my speakers properly (bastards!) but I bought some wall brackets over the weekend and put the speakers up on the walls directly behind.

    We actually moved to the other side of the room which has the same wall dimensions but without the column.

    I have placed the speakers about 4 feet above the top of the sofa. This is aprox 7 feet from floor.

    Can´t quite say what I make of the sound yet as the rears are still a bit quiet volume wise. Im actually worrying ive placed them too high :suicide:
    Rob
     

Share This Page

Loading...