Question AVReciever for 7.1.4 and help with Speakers for Room

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by KILLER NADS, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    Hi Guys,

    I currently have the Onkyo 646 AVR which i purchased last year with upfiring atmos speakers. I am currently going to be doing a sort of overhaul of my home cinema room, adding things like better sound/speakers, new epson laser projector and DBOX seats.

    In my room i currently have a 5.1 system in place with the following speakers:

    A pair of B&W 603 S1's Floor standers
    A pair of B&W 601 S1's Rears
    A B&W CC6 S2 Centre
    A B&W ASW1000 Sub Woofer

    After realising that i am going to need to push the Dbox seats a bit forward (currently sofa is at back wall) for the reclining and motion, I've figured that i can get a 7.1.4 system installed in the room.

    The up firing speakers i had for Atmos were largely disappointing and did not really work for me, possibly because of the high ceiling i have in the room at about 13 feet.

    This time round i am considering adding 4 in-ceiling speakers to the room, two in front of the seating area and 2 just behind.

    For this i am going to need a new AVR that can possibly do 7.1.4 and can also give me better sound then my current Onkyo 646 does.

    Please can people recommend me which AVR to go for ?

    I have also added pictures and a drawing of what my current room looks like, so any advice on adding the extra speakers would also be welcome.
     

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  2. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    I have attached the image in what i am thinking that the final room might look like, thoughts and ideas are welcome and encouraged please :)
     

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  3. PSM1

    PSM1
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    Your speaker placements are far from ideal for any of them so I wonder if you could get a real improvement in your sound by just getting that bit right.
    The front L/R are too close to the walls both sides and rear, The centre is never going to sound its best on the unit like it is either. Then the rears are too high up as well especially with an Atmos system which I believe recommends them at ear level.
    Looking at your proposed layout the side surrounds also appear that they will be placed high up on the wall and I am not sure there is enough space to the rear to let the sound properly diffuse from the rear surrounds (although a dipole/bipole speaker could help in that location).
    What is your budget for the change and do you intend to keep all your current speakers and just add to them?
     
  4. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    Thank you for the feedback, yes i know the sound is not bad, i do have good sound i would be lying if i said otherwise, but i know its far from being correctly laid out!

    I do have limited space, which i think is why the AV Specialist last time chose these sort of locations for the speakers.

    In the proposed layout, there is a few things. The side surrounds are almost down to ear level, standing on some speaker stands. I want to also bring down my current back surrounds down to just above sitting down ear level and move them in closer together.

    Atleast thats what i could come up with as the best solution.

    I do intend to keep my current speakers and build on top of that for now, as i believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that these are good speakers and don't really need changing. After spending so much money on dbox seats, I'm not sure what sort of budget i have left, I'm just looking to see what i can get and how much i would need to spend around, and also of course measuring it up to see if its going to be worth the upgrade in terms of price for me.
     
  5. PSM1

    PSM1
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    An isolation pad for the centre and moving it forward so proud of the front of the unit would help. So would moving the front speakers out of the corners. The speakers Are good quality so shame to not get the best from them. I would not go for monopole speakers at the rear.
     
  6. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    Okay cool, can definitely use the isolation pad for the centre if you think it will definitely help. Can move it slightly forward but not by much cause the table finishes. I don't really have a choice for the front left and right speakers to be honest, they are huge floor standing speakers, there is just no other space for them! Is there any particular reason as to why these positions are not good for them?

    For the rare i was going to continue using the back ones that i currently have but move them down and inside closer together more. Are these the monopole that you mention not to use?

    For the side surrounds i was planning on maybe buying something like the following:
    Monitor Audio Silver FX
    Monitor Audio Silver FX Gloss Black Surround Speakers (Pair) - Monitor Audio - AudioVisual Online - Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists


    and for the 4 ceiling atmos speakers maybe something like this:
    Monitor Audio CP-CT260
    Monitor Audio CP-CT260

     
  7. ashenfie

    ashenfie
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    You can test for yourself before purchasing. Remove from the cabinet and place on a chair in front of it's current location, use some old carpet or something similar. I suspect you notice quite a difference
     
  8. PSM1

    PSM1
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    The reason the positions are not good is due to something called the boundary effect. This means the speaker (or sound coming from it) will interact with the corner/wall and this can mean the bass becomes boomy and muddy. Given your room constraints I feel you may have bought the wrong speakers. Floorstanders need space around them and if you can not do this then it is often better to buy standmount or satellite speakers instead. Speakers should always be bought with the room and location in mind so I think you may have made an error with getting floorstanding speakers for the front.
    The front of the centre speaker really needs to be in front of the unit i.e. sticking out a few mm at least so that you minimise as much as possible the interaction between the speaker and the cabinet.
    Your current surrounds are monopole speakers and I do not think they would work well as rear surrounds in your proposed layout since they will be too close to you and could dominate the rear soundfield since there would not be enough space for the sound to diffuse properly.
    On the other speakers you really want the 7 speakers to be the same make and model hence I would not go for MA speakers as side surrounds. I would look at something from the B&W 6 series. I would also want B&W ceiling speakers as well but it may be less important to match those.
     
  9. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    The thing is that they are not exactly in the corner, they have quite a bit of space behind them as well, but yes the wall is a few short inches away from the sides of the floorstanders, also i have tried to move them as much to the front of the alcove as possible so that are not sitting right inside but a bit out.

    To be honest, I've never really had a problem with the sound quality from the front side, i think its wonderful. But yes i know i may not be the best person to judge that :D, i will take up your advice on the centre channel though and get something to isolate it like the pad.

    The problem with all the B&W speakers is the size of them, which is why i chose the MA ones for the side surrounds as they were recommended to me from AVS to work well with my B&W speakers. All the other B&W ones I've seen have been quite chunky, especially in depth!

    What do you suppose i do with the sides and the backs? Do you recommend to try and use my current back B&W for the sides instead and then get something else for the back?

    Someone also recommended to me before that i leave the backs UP where they are and use them as the two Back Atmos speakers, then i would only need to install 2 in-ceiling ones for 4 atmos speakers and then i should buy another 2 for side and 2 for back instead.
    However i didn't really like the idea of using the current back surround ones as atmos, i wanted 4 in ceiling speakers for that.
     
  10. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    Thanks for this i will try this out.
     
  11. KILLER NADS

    KILLER NADS
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    A few questions i want to ask.

    Firstly the ceiling atmos speakers, how do the following ones compare against the B&W CCM 683:
    Atlantic Technology IC-6 OBA

    For the back surrounds i am thinking of ditching (selling) my current back bookshelf B&W speakers and wall mounting something flat at ear level and a few feet behind the seats, something like these, please tell me what you think of them:
    DALI OPTICON LCR
    DALI OPTICON LCR. On-wall speaker that works winders with sound

    And for the side surrounds maybe get something like this:
    Dali Fazon SAT
    Dali Fazon Sat Bookshelf/Wallmount Speaker (Single) - Superfi


    Let me know what your thoughts are on this and how these speakers compare against what i currently have, obviously I'm wanting to go forward into getting something atleast equal to if not better then my current back surround B&W bookshelf speakers. These are too big and i don't think i can reuse them either as surround backs or sides when down to ear level.

    Please let me know your thoughts.

    Thanks.
     

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