AVR450 & DVD-Audio/SACD multichannel sound

Stupot43

Active Member
Hi everyone,
I am contemplating swapping my AVR500 for the AVR450. Not because I am having any problems with the 500 but purely because the 450 can handle the 3D and 4K whereas the 500 can't and the upgrade for the 500 is no longer available. However, one big drawback for me with the 450 is that it doesn't have multichannel analogue inputs available for DVD-Audio and SACD multichannel sound. The player I am using is the Cambridge Audio Azure 752BD Universal player and I know I can output the sound via the HDMI but can the AVR450 handle DSD or PCM over HDMI?
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks.
 

Ambo

Active Member
Should be the same as the 950 - 6 channel PCM over HDMI. Won't accept DSD. Multichannel SACD and BluRay Pure Audio sound great and only one cable! You need to make sure you have latest firmware and turn CD Direct to "off" in the menu to avoid an annoying tiny mute at start of each track. Once done, no problems. Question for you is whether the 450 DAC's are as good as the Cambridge DAC's. Can you demo?
 

spl23

Well-known Member
I was very concerned about the lack of analogue MCH ins before I bought my AVR750, but I have to say that I was very pleasantly surprised by how good MCH DSD from SACDs sounds on it via HDMI, even allowing for it being converted to PCM in the Oppo before being sent to the Arcam. Native DSD decoding in the AVR might make it sound slightly better, but the sound quality is more than acceptable even so.
 

Stupot43

Active Member
Should be the same as the 950 - 6 channel PCM over HDMI. Won't accept DSD. Multichannel SACD and BluRay Pure Audio sound great and only one cable! You need to make sure you have latest firmware and turn CD Direct to "off" in the menu to avoid an annoying tiny mute at start of each track. Once done, no problems. Question for you is whether the 450 DAC's are as good as the Cambridge DAC's. Can you demo?
I know the DAC's in the Cambridge and the AVR500 are the same, that's one of the reasons I went for the Cambridge because i knew that the sound would be very nearly the same as the receiver, however, I've had an internet search and cannot find anywhere that tells me what the DAC's are in the 450. Even so, its good to know that the 450 would probably accept PCM over HDMI.
 

spl23

Well-known Member
The DAC in the 450 and the 750 is a Crystal Semiconductor (now Cirrus Logic) CS42528. It's a codec rather than a DAC, i.e. it includes DACs and ADCs. Specs-wise, it's up there with the best products that Cirrus sell in terms of dynamic range and THD. The data sheet is available on the Cirrus Logic website if you're interested.
 

spl23

Well-known Member
Oh, and there's no "probably" about it - the 450 and 750 both definitely accept multichannel PCM over HDMI!
 

Stupot43

Active Member
The DAC in the 450 and the 750 is a Crystal Semiconductor (now Cirrus Logic) CS42528. It's a codec rather than a DAC, i.e. it includes DACs and ADCs. Specs-wise, it's up there with the best products that Cirrus sell in terms of dynamic range and THD. The data sheet is available on the Cirrus Logic website if you're interested.
Ok. Thanks spl23 for the info, i'll go and have a nosy.
 

Stupot43

Active Member
I've just had a look on the Cirrus website and found the following spec for the CS42528 codec:

Cirrus-logic-cs42528
114 dB, 192 kHz 8-Ch Codec with S/PDIF Receiver
Features
Eight 24-bit D/A, two 24-bit A/D Converters
114 dB DAC / 114 dB ADC Dynamic Range
-100 dB THD+N

Now what gets me is that one of these processors can be purchased for about £20 (£12 of that is postage!!)

How then can Arcam justify charging £2200 for the AVR450 and £4000 for the AVR750??
 

spl23

Well-known Member
Welcome to the world of hi-fi markups... I was once told by a friend (who worked for Kef) that the build cost of a typical hi-fi component (parts and labour) was of the order of 20% of the retail price - the remaining 80% goes in VAT, margin for the dealer, and to defray the R&D costs, cost of running the service department, marketing etc.

To be fair, no-one is really getting rich off this - at a guess, the development costs of the AVR450/750 would have been the salaries and premises for a team of 5-10 engineers for a couple of years - a million quid or so? Split that across the number of items that are likely to sell - which will be in the thousands, I'd guess, not significantly more - there's a large cost to defray per product.

If you want to look at unjustified RRPs compared to cost of development and manufacture, may I respectfully point you in the direction of the companies who sell cables at hundreds of pounds a metre...? ;-)
 
Last edited:

Stupot43

Active Member
........If you want to look at unjustified RRPs compared to cost of development and manufacture, may I respectfully point you in the direction of the companies who sell cables at hundreds of pounds a metre...? ;-)
Been there, done that, read the book, seen the film, got the T-shirt......not any more!
 

Similar threads

The latest video from AVForums

LG CX 4K OLED TV Review: The best TV of 2020?
Top Bottom