AVR350 quandry over trim levels

videoaddikt

Standard Member
I am teaming an Oppo Digital BDP83 with my AVR350. I've set up the proper distances in the player's BM menu for MCH outputs, set speakers for small, and set all 5.1 levels to '0' db.

KEY POINT:
The reason for setting the levels to zero is to use the trim settings in the Arcam, which is recommended by Oppo (as well as others).

(I have already set the +10db sub gain in the Arcam for analogue)

Now, if I set the trim levels in the Arcam using a test disk (DVE, etc., as the Oppo does not provide a test tone) and an SPL meter I am able to accomplish this very easily.
Now, my question is, when I adjust the 'trim' levels I am changing the settings I originally set up using the Arcam's test tone in the Arcam setup menu.
So now, does this not mean I have upset the levels for my digital sources?
The 'trims' are simply an short cut to set up speaker levels without going through the main Arcam setup menu, are they not?

Feel I am missing something very obvious (and running out of aspirin) :confused:
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
KEY POINT:
The reason for setting the levels to zero is to use the trim settings in the Arcam, which is recommended by Oppo (as well as others).

(I have already set the +10db sub gain in the Arcam for analogue)
Well, I'd say that you can't achieve your key point.

The trims on the Arcam are the only way to adjust output for digital sources. So, they need to be right for those and then for the Oppo you will have to leave them alone.

You've correctly identified the +10db for the MCH in's, however, as I understand it, because you have your speakers set to small on the Oppo, your bass will be a further -5db light. The Arcam only has a +10db option for the analogue sub in, so you may have to use the Oppo to compensate further. (If you use large speakers +10db is fine)

I'm not sure if a simple +5db on the Oppo is the best way as I don't know if upping the sub on the source can overload the analogue input. So you may prefer to try reducing the other speakers by 5db instead. Either way you need an additional 5db on the sub out relative to the other channels.

Also any other fine tuning of the Oppo outputs will need to be done on the Oppo as well and not the Arcam trims.

So, in summary, get the Arcam right with a digital source, then use a disk in the Oppo to use it's trim management to get your MCH's working properly.

EDIT: IF Arcam read this, a good (and hopefully simple) update for the AVR250/280/300/350, AVP700 might be to add a +15db option to the DVD-A sub as well as 0 and +10db. (Denon do this I believe) I'm seeing a lot more people asking these questions connecting Blu-ray players to older amps without HDMI, and I'm guessing there will be a few more in here when the Arcam model with analogue outs arrives. Just a thought. ;)
 
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videoaddikt

Standard Member
Well, I'd say that you can't achieve your key point.

The trims on the Arcam are the only way to adjust output for digital sources. So, they need to be right for those and then for the Oppo you will have to leave them alone.

You've correctly identified the +10db for the MCH in's, however, as I understand it, because you have your speakers set to small on the Oppo, your bass will be a further -5db light. The Arcam only has a +10db option for the analogue sub in, so you may have to use the Oppo to compensate further. (If you use large speakers +10db is fine)

I'm not sure if a simple +5db on the Oppo is the best way as I don't know if upping the sub on the source can overload the analogue input. So you may prefer to try reducing the other speakers by 5db instead. Either way you need an additional 5db on the sub out relative to the other channels.

Also any other fine tuning of the Oppo outputs will need to be done on the Oppo as well and not the Arcam trims.

So, in summary, get the Arcam right with a digital source, then use a disk in the Oppo to use it's trim management to get your MCH's working properly.

EDIT: IF Arcam read this, a good (and hopefully simple) update for the AVR250/280/300/350, AVP700 might be to add a +15db option to the DVD-A sub as well as 0 and +10db. (Denon do this I believe) I'm seeing a lot more people asking these questions connecting Blu-ray players to older amps without HDMI, and I'm guessing there will be a few more in here when the Arcam model with analogue outs arrives. Just a thought. ;)
Thanks, Ian..you elegantly reconfirmed my suspicions. The additional +5db (for redirected bass) is another issue, I was still researching.

So it seems like I am heading down the right road. I do not notice any real bass shyness in the MCH domain. My main speakers, while set to small, are actually good at the low end, down to 40Hz or so.... Of course, with the xover set to 80Hz in the Oppo..no 'real' bass gets exploited by them.

I suppose another option would be to increase the output of the sub externally (or with an EQ, etc.) for the extra gain. More complicated, but doable.
thanks again!

Just remembered I have an 8033 sub EQ in my system. The 25 or 35Hz lifts might be good for supplementing mch playback, without going to going too extreme in the Oppo setup...just 'trim to taste' on the Arcam.
I had considered the reduction of the other channels in ref. to the sub to gain the 5db..although this does put them a bit closer to the noise floor. More experiments than time ahead....thanks again!
 
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